Camps

John Bainter · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 26, 2002, 06:34am

Fellow Officials-

Good Day, for quite sometime I have been reading your stories and sharing your experiences. And I will have to admit that I have learned quite a bit about this game of basketball from each of you.

But now I'm curious and figure it is time to get the opinion of you fine scholars of the basketball world... I have been officiating for about 5 years mostly the lower level, pay your dues kind of games that always seem the have the weidest things happen, that are NEVER covered by the rules.

Anyway my question is about camps I have gone to a few and it would seem that they all seemed geared toward the great pumpkin known as D1, all I ever seem to hear from counselors is "at the D1 level you do this, but you don't that, you call this but you would not call that. So my question is what in the world is wrong with the high school game?

I can see that what is called at the "D1" level is not necessarily called at the V1 (varsity one) level, which is a no brainer because the rules are similiar yet different. But I don't really expect to ever get to D1 and after seeing many fine officials get the call to the big show and come home with the better luck next time speech, I wonder if anyone will ever make it.

But forgive me I'm rambling like I was saying I'm tired of going to camps and getting bombarded with what they do at the D1 level. I don't work it and after hearing about all you have to go through just to have people yell at you and say mean things about your mom and sister (ok so they know my sister) I'm not sure I really want to go that high when I'm already geting this at my level.

So are there any good instructional camps around that actually teach you about the High School game and are really interested in help you become better a better official rather than helping to relieve some of those greenbacks from your bank account?....

Thanks for listening,

signed whinning in Winthrop

Todd Springer · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 26, 2002, 08:47am

My advice to you would be to contact your state association. Most states have certified camps that are designed specifically for high school officials. As college officials, we need to be aware that all games are important, and that we need to be the best we can be at the level we are working. There is nothing wrong with NOT wanting to work college games. We all started at the high school level, and we will probably all end up at the high school level, when our college games are done. Godd Luck!

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 26, 2002, 08:47am

First, welcome to the board, John.

Most, although not all, camps are geared toward college rules, philosophies, and mechanics. If that's not your intended path, them you either don't go, or you go, take what you can use, and leave the rest.

I'm not sure where you live. Is it Winthrop, SC? If so, there's a HS camp held by a NC booking gent in Mt. Olive, NC, each year. It's a good camp, that I've attended. It's already been held this year. But they teach HS mechanics, rules and philosophy. And they do a good job.

Tim Roden · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 26, 2002, 11:05am

Yes, there are. I know of a number of them. The problem you are seeing is that a number of D1 officials "other job" is camp evaluator. So you get a number of D1 officials doing the evaluations at camp and they haven't called a HS game in ten years. There are a number of camps that are hosted by local assignors who's sole purpose is HS. Your local association should know of a few. In Texas they actually certify camps for that purpose.

JRutledge · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 26, 2002, 03:05pm

This is why I said the things I did when we had this discussion before. Going to those "big time" camps are not for everyone. You pay a lot of money and you get officials that do not evaluate your level telling you things that do not apply to what you need to know. Not everyone is wanting to do D1 or any college for that matter. And for those people that do, going to the "big time" camps can be great or not so great depending on the level of official that attends. And for those that want to move up, that experience might be the best thing for them.

All camps are not for every official. And if this is not your goal to do D1, do not attend those camps that have that kind of emphisis on them.

Peace

Tim Roden · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 26, 2002, 09:29pm

One thing I would like to add to what Rut has said about d1 evaluators at camp. I was able to sit at a table in the cafateria and just talk to them during a break. I learned exactly what price they had to pay to get to where they are. I was able to make the decision that D1 is not for me at this time. D2 and D3 is still in the cards though.

JRutledge · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 26, 2002, 10:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Roden
One thing I would like to add to what Rut has said about d1 evaluators at camp. I was able to sit at a table in the cafateria and just talk to them during a break. I learned exactly what price they had to pay to get to where they are. I was able to make the decision that D1 is not for me at this time. D2 and D3 is still in the cards though.

What did they tell you?

Peace

Tim Roden · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 26, 2002, 10:54pm

The time commitment required to make it to games. I don't know that I will be able to make the time committment for HS this year.

The intensity of coaches. Bobby Knight etc.

The mechanics that I haven't mastered, like ALWAYS knowing your shooter. That will again be a personal POE next season.

Mark Padgett · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 27, 2002, 12:27am

Probably the best insight I got into what happens at the D1 level was about 4 years ago when I was in the airport in San Francisco and sat next to a table of six Pac10 refs in a restaurant there. They were all transferring planes to different cities to work games.

I walked over and told them who I was and asked if I could just sit with them and listen. They said that was fine, as long as I bought the coffee.

They were discussing various games and coaches they had earlier in the season and I was fascinated by some of their stories. Their stories were the kind you never know of by watching the game on TV or reading the paper afterwards.

It was apparent to me that these guys took their responsibility very seriously, and their commitment to this level was way beyond anything I wanted to get into.

BTW - they bought my coffee.

ChuckElias · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 27, 2002, 08:26am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
What did they tell you?

Originally posted by Tim Roden
The time commitment required to make it to games.

I personally know 3 guys, just in my association, who have lost their marriages on the way to D1. The time away from your family is a huge toll on the relationship.

Chuck

John Bainter · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 27, 2002, 05:01pm

Thanks to those members who responded to my inquiry, it is refreshing to note that I will not be burned at the stake because I have no desire to go to D1, and it is not becasue I don't have high goals it is mainly for the reasons you have stated. I can relate to the losing your family part as I was at one time a "big time" softball player doing a lot of travleing on the weeekeds (left on Thursday and got back home on Sunday) then playing in Tuesday and Wednesday night leagues.

For my efforts I got one ugly divorce, and a lot of heartache at the job. I did ask my association about high school camps but many of the guys and gals have D1 on their minds so I got a lot of blank stares, however I did manage to find some places on my own. Again thanks for your advice and I look forward to sharing more stories with you; and if I ever happen to meet one of you at the airport I will spring for the coffee...

kslcol · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 29, 2002, 09:40am

John, I too am curious as to where you are located. I noticed you signed your original post "whining in Winthrop" are you located in the Charlotte area? If you are, I am aware that the South Carolina High School League is having a camp this weekend to help their high school officials with mechanics,rules,etc. If you want additional information on who to contact for future events. Please let me know. Thanks!

John Bainter · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 29, 2002, 01:28pm

Sorry I forgot to mention that Withrop is located in Washington, but I'm moving to the big city Seattle I have spoken to some folks that havetold me that there are numerous opportunities that await me there D1 or not.

Talk to you guys soon!!!!

rcwilco · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 02, 2002, 06:10pm

John I am looking forward to meeting you. I moved in last September and really liked the atitude of most of the officials that I worked with. If you need any names or info let me know but you can find what you need on the web sites for the boys and girls associations. There were some big differences from where I moved but they were good ones.I am going to a camp this weekend in Ellensburg and the girls camp in August here in Seattle, if you are going to either of them lets get together.

fletch_irwin_m · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 08, 2002, 08:10am

I went to my first camp a few weeks ago. Other then a minor apparel glitch, I had a great learning experience. This was a unique camp where it was run by an NBA official, with NBA, DI and NFHS observers. I took a lot away from it. "Being Big" was one thing I heard over and over again and eventually someone shouwed me what to do to look big. (Even though I am 6'4")
While I did tune out the "you have to do this to get in the NBA/DI level" I was able to look at the techniques and positioning and learn a lot that will help me this year in my lower level (MS/JV) games. After all I have only officiated one year!