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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 11:01am
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NFHS Free Throws

Discussing with a coaching buddy of mine about NF vs. NCAA free throw restrictions. (Restrictions end when ball hits rim/bboard vs. release by thrower).

Discussion was centered on which is actually easier to officiate lane violations, fouls and such.

I thought it would be easier on the officials. He contended they both would be just as easy to officiate.

What does the forum think?

I personally hope someday it goes on the release....we don't wait for it to hit the rim to box out on jumpshots!!
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 11:39am
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I think on the release would be easier.
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 11:57am
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Release

I vote for the return of the release
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 12:12pm
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Release would be easier, but if you watch closely in the tournament, they often enter during the shooting motion.
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 12:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbking View Post
I vote for the return of the release
Agreed.

Maybe it's just me but it seems like ever since NFHS went to "on the hit" the shooter gets more rebounds than ever.
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 12:54pm
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Yeah, buy if NFHS goes to playing on the release, the NCAA will go to playing it off the rim just to be different.
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 01:52pm
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When the changed the rule to "when it hits" instead of on the release it was to clean up rebounding fouls. Since then we have gone from 8 players in the lane to 6 players max. Also, last year they moved all the players up a spot, which significantly helped lessen rebounding fouls.

So, with the changes to the number of players on the lane as well as moving them up a spot, I think that the NFHS could go back to "on the release" without seeing an increase in rebounding fouls. However, this may be a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it", so I doubt that we'll see this change anytime soon.
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 01:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
So, with the changes to the number of players on the lane as well as moving them up a spot, I think that the NFHS could go back to "on the release" without seeing an increase in rebounding fouls. However, this may be a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it", so I doubt that we'll see this change anytime soon.
I agree, but I wish they would go back to the "release." I just do not think it is going to happen.

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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 02:15pm
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Release or hit Call the violations

I like the release personally, especially from the lead it is easier to work with since you are not supposed to be watching the hit (and to many people wrongly say it has to hit the rim) the release seems easier to watch while covering your responsibilities.

But the rebounding fouls would be less if we as officials did a better job of enforcing the violations that do occur.
There a many an instance where there are all six of them in the lane before ball hit in a FED game and there is no call.
I think it is a little better in NCAA but not by leaps and bounds.
proper enforcement would go a long way to cleaning up the rebounding issues IMO
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 02:17pm
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It's been "ain't broke" for many years now. And yet the NFHS has insisted on messing with it anyway.
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 02:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF View Post
I like the release personally, especially from the lead it is easier to work with since you are not supposed to be watching the hit (and to many people wrongly say it has to hit the rim) the release seems easier to watch while covering your responsibilities.

But the rebounding fouls would be less if we as officials did a better job of enforcing the violations that do occur.
There a many an instance where there are all six of them in the lane before ball hit in a FED game and there is no call.
I think it is a little better in NCAA but not by leaps and bounds.
proper enforcement would go a long way to cleaning up the rebounding issues IMO
Agreed. And if officials had done a better job of calling rebounding fouls on free throws, the Fed never would have changed the rule.
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 03:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by refguy View Post
Agreed. And if officials had done a better job of calling rebounding fouls on free throws, the Fed never would have changed the rule.
Perhaps. But the NFHS itself is partly to blame. Free throws are the busiest thing we do as an official. Sure jump balls have lots of arcane rules, but nobody knows them and nobody cares and you only jump it once a game. Throw ins can be busy too, especially if there's heavy pressure. But free throws take the cake.

Just take a minute and go through all the stuff we have to know and do on every free throw. Have we got the right shooter? Do we have the right number of shots? Does the book have the foul recorded properly? Have they given us the proper information in return? Do we have the right rebounders in the right spots? The right number of offense and defense? Are they all set and are their toes off the lines? Are they "sword fighting" or "posing" in ways that bear watching? Is the shooting team delaying? Huddling? What if they are? Is the shooter's toe on the line? What if he fumbles the ball away? Which team gets the delayed dead ball and which gets the immediate? Which players am I watching for leaving early? What if we have simultaneous violations? Defense and shooter both violate? Shooter and a player not on the lane? Do we have subs? Did the shot hit the rim? And just how do I watch the shot and players entering early? And how do I watch the shot and watch the players on my side of the lane setting up for the rebound while I'm watching across for entering early? Then there's the 10 count, the chop, the clock start properly, subs coming up late, the shooter toeing the line, players on the arc, players in backcourt, potential time out requests.

In short, there are way more things to watch, and way more places to be watching than you can possibly ever watch. So we get kind of selective in what we watch. We watch the objectively measured things (violations) in preference to the subjectively measured things (fouls).

If the NFHS really wants to make it easier to watch all this stuff, then they need to adjust the mechanics a little.

* Have officials watch the players on their own side of the lane, rather than across. That way we're seeing how the players set up for the rebound while we watch for entering early rather than watching feet on the players across the lane then shifting our gaze to the rebounders on our own side.
* Let players enter on the release. This eliminates the need to watch the shot hit and players' feet at the same time.
* Put the third official to work in three-person mechanics. Make that official responsible for the shot hitting the rim, and players not on the lane entering too soon...or some other division of labor that actually reduces the amount of work the L and C have on free throws. Whoever's lame idea it was to put the T standing on the division line during free throws and tell him to relax until he's needed ought to be beaten (even more) senseless.

Just my $0.02
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Last edited by Back In The Saddle; Mon Mar 30, 2009 at 03:07pm.
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 03:17pm
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Looks like I'm alone on this one, but I like the current Fed rule of entering on the rim-hit. In the instances where I've worked games where players enter on release, it seems there is a lot more severe contact and jockeying prior to the rebound. Maybe it's just the leagues I've worked (wreck boys & men's).

I don't think the Fed is interested in changing to be consistent with NCAA rules. I think they generally lean toward safety and limitations on rough play. Thus, I doubt it will change anytime soon.
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 04:11pm
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Originally Posted by Bad Zebra View Post
Looks like I'm alone on this one, but I like the current Fed rule of entering on the rim-hit.
Or the backboard-hit. Don't forget this. I hear lots of officials tell players, "Wait 'till it hits the rim". It can hit the backboard first and then hit the rim, be a legal shot and players are allowed to enter when it hits the backboard first. Telling them they have to wait until the ball hits the rim before they can enter the lane is erroneous information.
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 04:17pm
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Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
Or the backboard-hit. Don't forget this. I hear lots of officials tell players, "Wait 'till it hits the rim". It can hit the backboard first and then hit the rim, be a legal shot and players are allowed to enter when it hits the backboard first. Telling them they have to wait until the ball hits the rim before they can enter the lane is erroneous information.
If it definitely one of my pet peeves, when my partner says, "Let it hit the rim." Every time I hear that, I cringe.

I prefer to bounce the ball and say, "Let it hit before you get in."
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