The Official Forum - Shot clock violation in Pitt-Xavier Game

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- - Shot clock violation in Pitt-Xavier Game (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/52551-shot-clock-violation-pitt-xavier-game.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 591788)

They didn't show a real-time replay and the TV I was watching on didn't have DVR, so I couldn't rewind it.

The slow-motion replay showed there were at least 3 frames between 0 and the release of the shot. Not sure how much time that equates to, but that kind of play could have a real impact on the game. The play in question gave Xavier a one point lead at the time, and the way that game was going, it very well could have stayed a one point game.

If this sort of play isn't reviewable, I think it should be. They shouldn't have to find a loophole in the rules to get a call right.

They didn't review the block charge play just before that either. Instead of a turnover and the fouls being 5-4, Pitt put 2 points on the board and fouls were 6-3. And it was their best defender's 4th foul. Both teams had multiple chances to win.

I think there's a difference in reviewing fouls because they aren't black and white like whether or not the ball was in or out of the shooter's hand before the clock hits 0.

It's good being able to comment on these situations now from down under. We've recently launched a new 24/7 sports channel, and I get to see a fair bit of NCAA.

Just thought I'd chime in and say that the ball definitely hadn't left his hand. I don't know your rules though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 591842)

I think there's a difference in reviewing fouls because they aren't black and white like whether or not the ball was in or out of the shooter's hand before the clock hits 0.

Some fouls are like the one I mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 591842)

I think there's a difference in reviewing fouls because they aren't black and white like whether or not the ball was in or out of the shooter's hand before the clock hits 0.

why? Shot clock violation is just a violation like a travel, basket interference, three seconds, or backcourt. If you could review that shot then why not review everything. There is a point you just cant do it... Look at football and what they have (look at new pro rules)... If all these palys were subject to review the game would take all night and have no flow...

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 591837)

If it's not true for all clocks, then shouldn't an effort be made to make it true or not true for all clocks?

There is alot of review, and this is a debate that could go on for days, so I'll just throw in my 2 cents now. There is alot of review, in all sports. Even baseball has succumbed to reviewing a certain play. Some don't like how much review there is. But there's an increasing desire to get the calls right. If you have the technology, why not review it and make sure you get the correct call? That way, you don't have people wondering, "what if?". You know you've got the right call, and you can move on.

Where does it stop though? Pretty soon we'll just be referees who have earpieces to the TV truck where the officials will tell us when to blow whistles lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 591837)

If it's not true for all clocks, then shouldn't an effort be made to make it true or not true for all clocks?

You might be able to get away with this at the NBA level, but not anywhere else. There's no way to regulate how clocks are manufactured. At the NBA level, with a limited number of venues, they could enforce this. College? Doubtful.

High school? Not a chance.

Violations should not be reviewable. You gonna add whether or not he stepped on the line to the list of reviewable plays?

An interesting point that is not really directly responsive to the question here, but it's about the game and shot clocks in NCAA.

The game clock usually shows less time on the clock than there really is in the game, until zero. The shot clock shows more time than is usually on the shot clock.

For example, when the game clock shows 11:11, there is really MORE than (or exactly equal to) 11:11 on the clock -- maybe as much as .99 seconds. The best way to see this visually is at the beginning of the game, when the clock ticks from 20:00 to 19:59 immediately, not in one second. You see it again when the clock goes to tenths of a second. The clock lingers on 1:00 for a full second before showing 59.9. The reason is that while the clock is showing 1:00, the amount of time left is really between 1:01 and 1:00. In other words, the game clock is always rounding down to the nearest second (or in the last minute to the nearest tenth).

The shot clock is different. You don't see the second tick off UNTIL the second is actually expired. So, unlike the game clock, when the shot clock is started, it takes a full second before it goes from 35 to 34. This is why, for example, you can see the odd situation where the game clock shows 34.5, but the shot clock still shows 35. It seems the shot clock should be off at the point, but not really. The true time left on the shot clock might really only be 34.2, even though it shows 35, because it doesn't tick down to 34 until it gets to 34.

Very long winded way of saying that the shot clock horn should always be simultaneous with 0, because as soon as it says zero, there is no more time in the 35 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rulesmaven (Post 592025)

This is why, for example, you can see the odd situation where the game clock shows 34.5, but the shot clock still shows 35. It seems the shot clock should be off at the point, but not really. The true time left on the shot clock might really only be 34.2, even though it shows 35, because it doesn't tick down to 34 until it gets to 34.

Very long winded way of saying that the shot clock horn should always be simultaneous with 0, because as soon as it says zero, there is no more time in the 35 seconds.

As Bob Jenkins referenced, the NCAAW quiz had a question on this that caused so much discussion, they posted a bulletin that said (paraphrasing) by rule, you must turn the shot clock off when time exceeds game clock (REGARDLESS of your "knowledge" or logic.)

They don't state a reasoning, but it's likely because not all shot clocks operate the same (different manufacturers).

The most obvious solution will be to include tenths of seconds on shot clocks, but it may not happen for quite a while.

We discussed this here:

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...k-no-horn.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by pizanno (Post 592041)

They don't state a reasoning, but it's likely because not all shot clocks operate the same (different manufacturers).

Bingo.

As an example, I've worked at two different D-I schools, each of which has the shot clock set to automatically turn off when there is less time on the game clock than on the shot clock. At one school, the shot clock turns off when there are 35.9 seconds on the clock, at another, it doesn't turn off until 35.0.