Another one for newbies
 

NF rules. A1 begins his shooting motion. B1 fouls him on the arm. Before A1 can release the shot, the horn sounds ending the second period. A1 continues his motion and the shot goes in. Team A is not in the bonus. What's your call?

No foul. I'm too worried about the principal of the defensive team's school launching a protest over my judgment.

I'm starting a petition against you anyway, just to be on the safe side.

Basket is good, shooting one free throw with the lane cleared. (4-41-1)

How can you count the basket when the ball is in the players hand when the horn goes off?

What Did You Not Understand About "For Newbies" ???
 

bradfordwilkins: 169 posts and you consider yourself a newbie? At least you were wrong, and we'll get a chance for a real newbie to win a prize off the top shelf.

Mark Padgett: If we don't get a correct answer by the end of the afternoon, can I play? I've got my eye on that big, blue, teddy bear on the top shelf. Please?

Speaking of post numbers, how many posts does one need before one becomes an esteemed Forum member?

The Top Shelf Always Has The Best Prizes ...
 

Mark Padgett: LocDog249 has only 23 posts. I would consider him, or her, to be a newbie. Wouldn't you? But his, or her, answer is not complete. It's your thread, so it's your call. I say give him a prize from the bottom shelf, you know, one of those six inch stuffed animals, or one of those red plastic horms, or at least one of those six inch, black plastic, combs.

I figured it was for newbie refs, not newbies to the forum. If you want I can answer it..... but I figured I would let newbie refs take a crack at it.

Always one more than whatever you have. :D

Full Disclaimer ...
 

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A Lesson Learned For Life ...
 

This reminds me of my seventh grade math teacher, Mr. Fiore. He had a classmate stand about six feet away from a wall, and instructed him to take one step, at half the distance to the wall, toward the wall. He then instructed him to take another step, at half the distance of the first step, toward the wall, and to continue this procedure until he reached the wall. That was back in 1966, and my classmate may still be there.

Do not count the basket. Ball was not released in time. However, since he started his motion, we will shoot foul shots with the lane cleared.

Haha was just taking a wild guess assuming it was a trick question :-P

The language in 4-41-1 implies that the continuous motion does not end until the ball is in flight...

And if B1 impeded A1's ability to get the shot off in time (and A1 had begun their habitual motion).

Additionally, the clock theoretically stops at the whistle and thus there is time left on the clock when the whistle blows on contact before the horn. Depending on HOW much time was left on the clock when the shot was fired and if the official had definite knowledge of how much time was left. If so, time back on the clock (and no cleared lane...)

What Do You Not Understand About the Word "Newbie" ???
 

Mark Padgett: I don't consider 301 posts to be a newbie, but it's your thread, and you're providing the prize.

But, 300 of the posts were awful.

Which side of the international date line are we on? :confused:

Thank you, Zeno. :cool:

for that....
 

.... pair of docs.

Locdog is close. With the removal of lag time, the answer to the question is, "It depends."

It depends if one of the officials looked at the clock after the whistle and saw any time on it.

If none of the officials see any time on the clock, then time has expired for the quarter and the basket cannot count. No basket, two free throws with the lane empty since time has expired.

If an official saw time, and the decision is made to put time back on the clock, then time has not expired, therefore the basket would count and one free throw with the lane occupied since there is time left.

In 1966, you were in 7th grade? Why, you're just a child. In Sept. 1966, I was starting my sophomore class - in college! Of course, I was only 17 - not kidding.

North.

Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior, What's Next If You Don't Graduate ???
 

I never told you how many times I was in seventh grade, or first grade, or third grade, or fourth grade, for that matter. The third year of kindergarten was the best. We switched from regular milk, to chocolate milk.

I Loved That Show ...
 

You mean Zeno, the Warrior Princess?

http://ac4.yt-thm-a04.yimg.com/image/7322b4f9e1a795b4

No, nor do I mean Zeno the Stoic. I mean Zeno of Elea, of course. ;)

It's Just That I've Got A Lot Of Zenos In My Neighborhood ...
 

Of course. How foolish of me to ask.

I thought you meant this Zeno.

http://www.zenobodycare.com/images/zenoProducts01.jpg

This is my favorite Zeno of all

RoboKind ZENO

Yes, this is the correct call. Just not the popular call with the coach, since he/she will not understand how you can wave off a basket but still give the shooter 2 shots for being in the act of shooting. I have made this call probably at least 10 times over the years and I have yet to have a coach understand how this could be. Not a popular call but the correct call. If fouled in the act of shooting but without releasing the ball before the horn goes off, you can't count the basket but have to give the offensive player 2 shots with the lane cleared to end the quarter or half in this instance.

There is an exception to this. The rule says it doesn't count if it's not released before time expires. It does not say it doesn't count if it's not released before the horn sounds.

You are right, I should have worded that better. Though if the horn goes off when the clock says 0.00 then I look at that as being the same thing. You are right though, we as officials have to know if the ball was released or still in the hand when the clock went to 0.00, we don't have the red light on the backboard at most schools I work here in Indiana so we do have to know by the clock not the horn or backboard light. Good point! my point is it's a hard call to explain to a coach if you are waving off the basket but still giving 2 shots for the foul, though if the shot is still in the hand when the clock reads 0.00 then that is the correct call.

That is really funny!

Going to my earlier point though -- how can the clock expire if you blow your whistle before the clock expires? Sure the horn can sound but if you or your partners have knowledge of the clock, there has got to be some time left. Even if its .3 seconds.

<font color=red>This is the key.</font color> Definite knowledge is not simply knowing that the horn went off after the whistle, but rather exactly what the clock read when the whistle was blown, or what the time was when the official looked at it. It is <B>not</B>: "I'm definitely sure the horn went off after the whistle, so we need to put something back on the clock."

I'd hope with a few seconds winding down the game, that one of my partners would be watching the clock pretty closely and thus have definite knowledge. Or at least in our theoretical scenario of proper execution, someone SHOULD be watching that clock.

Absolutley agree.