Ejection Policies and Are They Upheld?
 

After reading some posts on this board about state associations either waiving suspensions or upholding suspensions as a result of an ejection from a contest, I'm curious as to the following: 1) Does your state association(s) require the coaches to attend the same rules meetings officials do? 2) If so, does the state association(s) make it clear during the meeting the ramifications of an ejection, and the fact that it cannot be appealed (or otherwise)? 3) Is your state association(s) being consistent with their policy? I'm not out to do a neener-neener kind of thing, but one thing that bugs me as an official is when we do our jobs, and then have our "authority" taken away after the fact because some higher-ups thought we may have been hasty or unclear in our thinking (as if we haven't gotten used to the idiots in the stands who think that every time we run up and down the court!). Talk away folks. I'm going to sit back with my popcorn and see the responses.

Both my LA and PA communicate regarding banned (short of long periods) individuals. However, there is always room for improvement.

See "Interesting T" thread. Apparently the IHSA backs the officials, even in the case of a "star" player and a questionable call.

All ejections are final. If the rules are followed and a judgment is made, the decisions are final. No going back and changing those decisions. And as far as I know based on what was said before by the IHSA, they support their officials 100% in these situations.

Peace

I applaud IHSA for doing so, but there was an official here on the board who ejected a coach in another state and it was being appealed. I believe it was ReffingRev I may be referring to. Can't remember the thread.

This is not an uncommon occurrence. They have zero tolerance for behavior of coaches and players when it comes to these things. The only time I have ever head the IHSA take back an ejection, was because a baseball umpire ejected a player for simply wearing a jewelry item, which for the record is the same rule in basketball and football. You just remove the player. I have never heard of another case of any kind other than erroneous application of the rules by an official. This might not have been the best call, but it certainly had some merit. At least without any further information.

Peace

I've not known the NCHSAA to reverse an ejection. Yes, coaches attend a rules clinic. Yes, they are aware of the consequences and the no appeal. Yes, they are consistent.

I think officials are less consistent, disqualifying players and coaches instead of ejecting them, which incldues a 2 game suspension. Fighting is a 4 game suspension.

Hmmm,
 

In Oregon an ejection cannot be reversed. All ejections in Oregon also include the penalty that the player or coach cannot participate the remainder of that day at any level and there is an additional one game suspension.

Saying that there is a process to lower the penalty that is associated with an ejection.

Example:

In high school baseball last season there were 86 ejections of players and coaches.

Of these ejections 41 were appealed and schools requested that the additional one game penalty be waived.

20 times the OSAA granted the waiver.

Recognize that the OSAA does not make this decision without conferencing with the the local association commissioner who, in turn, talks directly with the official that made the ejection.

Sometimes in baseball (because tradition allows a coach to come on to the field of play to argue even judgment calls) ejections can be questionable even for the well seasoned umpire.

Baseball had FOUR TIMES more ejections than any other sport. Girls softball played 80% as many games as boys baseball and they had seven (7) ejections for the entire season.

Regards,

For the KSHSAA, refs and coaches attend the same rules meeting and ejections/suspensions are covered. I don't have any experience with actual ejections.

:eek: I remember seeing the stats in Nebraska at the football rules meeting last summer, that the sport with the highest number of ejections was soccer! Even baseball paled in comparison. Must have some Bobby Cox wannabes working in Oregon! :eek:

not that it matters, but i saw the play in question (which resulted in the 2nd T on the game) and it was a VERY poor call by one of the officials.

you can say that the coach should not have had him in the game at that point......
you can say that the player should have known better.....
you can say the state association officials should use logic/judgement and not simply follow the "letter of the law" on this rule....

you can blame anyone else you like.....BUT there can be no disputing that the call was VERY poor (even if it was the kids only T of the night). That call cannot be made against ANY player in that situation - scrimmage, non-conference game, regular season game, or state playoff game....

No, it is just a difference in how a player being removed from a game is handled. In soccer it is not uncommon for a player to receive a yellow card for "persistent infringement" of the rules. An example: kid fouls the same opponent 3 times during the 1st half on the 3rd foul he is issued his 1st yellow card. In the second half he fouls other players 2 more times and is issued a 2nd yellow card which means he is now out for the remainder of the game. That scenario is reported as an ejection. So in Basketball the kid would have had 5 fouls be on the bench and no report to the state. In soccer the 2nd yellow card is a "soft" red card but a red card none the less and is reported as an ejection. Soccer has no more or no less hot heads as players or coaches but the above described discrepancy puts soccer in a poor light.

That may be true. But we can always look at a call or two and disagree with them. He would not have been ejected from the game if he did not have another T during the game. And when you are winning by 20 points, you should have enough sense to realize that anything he does is subjected to a judgment by the officials to take him out of this game. Also, I did not see a video that suggested what was called. All that I have seen is the word of the media and the coach, which I tend to be careful listening to in these situations. It is possible he was not ejected for hanging on the rim, but slamming the backboard. And when I get the chance, I will ask the officials involved and see if there is more to the story.

Peace

Is that your final answer based on the recent IHSA ruling?

In my 13 years of officiating, I have never seen such a thing overturned by people in the IHSA Office for something that is a judgment call. You must did not read my comments on the other thread.

Peace

It was my post earlier, you referenced. "I Made a Mistake"

Coaches do have to attend a rules meeting, either the same one we do, or the "Coaches Association" meeting. Coaches only at that one, I can't say if what is said there matches up with what is said at our's.

In my situation, a coach was ejected in the first round of the playoffs for using a magic word and then charging an official (moi), and would ordinarily be required to sit out the next game. His AD appealed to the state, that his ejection was the result of poor professionalism by the officiating crew, which is like a buzz word in state meetings. So he was permitted to coach their next two games.

I have not heard any official word, except that "ejections and their ramifications are not eligible for any appeal, however, in the event that an ejection is not solely the ejected individual's fault, and the enforcement of consequences might punish teammates who had done nothing wrong consequences may be delayed."

The language orignally used that the ejection was under appeal was the newspaper's interpretation of consequences being delayed.

That coach will be required to take the NFHS coaching class on-line and pay its fee, and he will sit out 2 games next season. 1 for the ejection, and 1 for gross misconduct towards game officials. He has also been put on notice that if he acts in such a way towards officials again he will be suspended for 1 year. (He and I had coffee and a bagel at the girls' tournament this weekend)


Oh, and I spent my first 4 years in IHSA, they have not always been so "supportive" of officials, but I hear they have gotten much better.

With all due respect to our moderators, it would be super nice if they would agree that Rut has been proven completely wrong in this case as the IHSA has overturned the ejection, and not delete my posts pointing out this fact.

Perhaps Rut will finally bring himself to admit that he is wrong about something. Perhaps he will finally learn and improve from it. It would be really spectacular to see. :D

Again with all due respect to our moderators and the job that they have done, there is simply no denying his incorrectness on this one.

Perhaps even bob jenkins will come in and tell Rut that he was wrong. :eek:

I will be waiting for the quote
 

With all due respect, what am I wrong about?

You obviously do not know what was said by the IHSA. I did not say it would never be changed. I said I had not ever seen a situation but one that was overturned when the officials misapplied a rule to eject someone.

I did not make a prediction. I did say the IHSA knew more about the situation than any of us knew because a Special Report is filed. Show where I said they were not going to change this decision?

You will not find such a comment. If you want to split hairs, that is fine with me. But man enough to admit that you will not find any comments I said what the IHSA would nor would not do? I would never say what a family member would do. Why would I suggest what the IHSA would not do?

Peace

This is really not that big a deal, because I don't think too many people care, about Illinois in general, and Rut in particular.**




**another joke

Interestiing, you posted about it. But you do not care. Funny. :D

Peace

Since you are not man enough to post my comments, I will do it myself.

Peace

I see that you are conveniently attempting to ignore this part.


I'm done with this now. I've clearly made my point and do not wish to cause the moderators a headache.

Buh-bye.

Like deja vu in a mirror.

Finally.

You know, just a thought, but the same thing could be said about your post on girls' basketball. ;)

From the IHSA Official's Handbook, page 27:

"Ejections for unsportsmanlike conduct are considered decisions of contest officials and will not be subject to appeal (by-law 6.033). Schools and the IHSA may assess additional penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct of players and coaches. Official, if you eject a player or coach this ejection is final. There is no changing of the decision during or after the contest. Therefore make sure that the ejection is warranted."

Peace

You are right. If I recall, he was not in that discussion at all. Just like this thread. :D

Peace

Kinda like.......deja vu in a mirror.

Why didn't I think of that.

I saw your post; I just thought I'd spell it out more clearly.

Still didn't sink in.

Sure he did; he even made a tacit admission before commenting on how he thought it was funny that you'd inserted yourself into each thread without really commenting on the topic at hand.

It's like I'm becoming Rut's official translator or something.

creeeekkk.....creeeekkkk......creeeekkkkk......
 

I am still waiting for a reference where I was wrong? Not that it is a big deal, but funny how no one has said anything since I posted the actual language from the IHSA (not from me). :p

Peace

This is a quote very similar to what the IHSAA (Iowa Boys) uses in their officials manual as well, and it gets pointed out in each coach/officials' letter that is sent out during the sports season. They hammer it to death. The IGHSAU (Iowa Girls) reference something similar to this as well, but not as much as the IHSAA.

The NSAA (Nebraska)...I don't see this quote anywhere or any reminder to the officials. Maybe that explains why ReffingRev's situation had a twist to it. Ironic how the varsity level gets a different treatment than the subvarsity level, because I had a game where a player and an assistant coach from the same school got ejected (by my partner) and they both sat out their suspensions, and the coach apparently didn't take the online class, because I saw the same team later, and asked the head coach where his assistant was. Response: no longer my assistant. ;)