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-   -   Requirement or Courtesy? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51886-requirement-courtesy.html)

JRutledge Wed Feb 25, 2009 01:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattk (Post 583097)
I would say the last 5 minutes of the game as an official, you MUST know how many timeout each time has. Coach A calls timeout with 2:45 to go in the game. You report the TO to the scoretable. Then a good book-keeper will raise his/her hands indicating the # of TO's left for each team. 2-2, 2-1, 2-0, 4-2.

Then you tell both coaches, or an assistant, "Hey coach you have 2 timeouts left." Just to make sure everyone is on the same page.
Also make sure you tell your partner/s.

Now most of the newer scoreboards indicate TOL (time outs left) Which makes it really easy.

Along the lines of TO's. At the end of a close game, be aware of when a coach is going to want that Timeout (after a made basket, when they are trapped.) There is nothing worse than having a coach jumping up and down for a TO and the officials miss it. With a 3-person crew you have a T or C near the benches so that helps.
Are we supposed to tell them the foul differential and 3 point percentage too? ;)

Peace

walter Wed Feb 25, 2009 01:34pm
In NCAA it is required. In the high school games I do, the Board I belong to has declared that we do NOT inform the coaches. The rationale is due to a state tournament situation a couple of years ago where the official scorer provided the wrong info to an official and subsequently, a "T" ended up being given later on when the Coach requested and was granted his last timeout when in fact he didn't have any left. After that, our Board's executive committee decided that our officials were not to notify the coach how many timeouts he/she had left.

Raymond Wed Feb 25, 2009 01:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by walter (Post 583114)
In NCAA it is required. In the high school games I do, the Board I belong to has declared that we do NOT inform the coaches. The rationale is due to a state tournament situation a couple of years ago where the official scorer provided the wrong info to an official and subsequently, a "T" ended up being given later on when the Coach requested and was granted his last timeout when in fact he didn't have any left. After that, our Board's executive committee decided that our officials were not to notify the coach how many timeouts he/she had left.
Walter, there is no requirement in either the FED or NCAA to notify coaches how many T-O's they have remaining. The requirement is to inform coaches when their team has 0 (zero) remaining; that goes for both rules sets.

JRutledge Wed Feb 25, 2009 01:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 583117)
Walter, there is no requirement in either the FED or NCAA to notify coaches how many T-O's they have remaining. The requirement is to inform coaches when their team has 0 (zero) remaining; that goes for both rules sets.
And it is not the requirement that the official inform the coaches, it is a requirement that the scorer do so through the official. So we are not going looking for this information or leave our positions to give that information.

I really do not know why this is such a hard thing to understand. It is one thing to follow the rule, but to take it to another level is silly.

Peace

GoodwillRef Wed Feb 25, 2009 01:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 583081)
I do not think it is my fault if coaches do not know how many timeouts they have. Actually when I ask coaches what kind of timeout they have, they usually tell me what they are left with. I have never bought that this is essential or the world is going to end if I do not tell a coach he is out or worse, how many timeouts they have left.

Peace
We wouldn't want to do a little preventive officiating.

just another ref Wed Feb 25, 2009 02:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattk (Post 583097)

There is nothing worse than having a coach jumping up and down for a TO and the officials miss it.

This point is debatable.

JRutledge Wed Feb 25, 2009 02:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 583125)
We wouldn't want to do a little preventive officiating.
What are you preventing?

If they call a timeout and they do not have one I am giving a T.

Peace

JugglingReferee Wed Feb 25, 2009 02:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 583145)
What are you preventing?

If they call a timeout and they do not have one I am giving a T.

Peace
Common sense would tell us that a coach will be more aware of something if an official tells him. So, by increasing the chance that a coach will not unknowingly request an excessive timeout, you are improving the game from the game management point of view.

His/Her timeout-tracking process might have not recorded a TO request, for example.

GoodwillRef Wed Feb 25, 2009 02:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 583145)
What are you preventing?

If they call a timeout and they do not have one I am giving a T.

Peace
Do you really want to have your game end with a technical foul for calling too many timeouts?

At times you have some very good points in your posts and then other times IMO you go way out into leftfield.

WreckRef Wed Feb 25, 2009 02:45pm
I agree with both JR's as they both have valid points.

The rules state that the table is supposed to notify the coaches through the officials so if they don't notify us when the team uses its final TO, it's not our job to go find this information out. I definitely see this in the case of upper levels where there are 1 or multiple assistant coaches.

However, I agree with the other JR that it is preventive officiating and good game management at lower levels where the coach usually doesn't have an assistant or they are just parents volunteering.

M&M Guy Wed Feb 25, 2009 02:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 583159)
Do you really want to have your game end with a technical foul for calling too many timeouts?

At times you have some very good points in your posts and then other times IMO you go way out into <font color=red>leftfield</font color>.
Hey, save the baseball references for the baseball thread. (Espcially since the first spring training games are today...whoo hoo!)

Anyway, he isn't in left field on this one. Look again at 2-11-6. It is the <B>scorer's</B> responsibility to notify the coaches (through the officials) they have taken their last TO. It is not the official's job to notify the coaches. Yes, we can know this information. Yes, we can relay this information when the scorer tells us. Yes, we can do it as a courtesy. But it is not our <B>job</B> to tell coaches how many TO's they have left. It is also not our job to prevent calling a T for an excessive TO request when it happens. If a team or coach requests too many TO's, it is possible they might still want one knowing they have requested too many.

just another ref Wed Feb 25, 2009 03:00pm
It is the timer's job to start and stop the clock. But we observe the clock and have a count to help the situation if he fails to do so correctly.

M&M Guy Wed Feb 25, 2009 03:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 583172)
It is the timer's job to start and stop the clock. But we observe the clock and have a count to help the situation if he fails to do so correctly.
Right - that's covered in the rules.

Where is it in the rules that it is the official's job to notify coachs the number of TO's they have left?

JugglingReferee Wed Feb 25, 2009 03:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 583175)
Right - that's covered in the rules.

Where is it in the rules that it is the official's job to notify coachs the number of TO's they have left?
Reasonably inferred from 2-11-6, for when the last timeout is taken (zero is a number):

ART. 6 . . . Record the time-out information charged to each team (who and when) and notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out.

WreckRef Wed Feb 25, 2009 03:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 583175)
Right - that's covered in the rules.

Where is it in the rules that it is the official's job to notify coachs the number of TO's they have left?
I thought it was decided that it wasn't our job to notify coaches of how many TO's they had left. I believe the debate was if the table failed to notify us the coach had used his/her final TO if we would go searching for this info.

Again, at higher levels I wouldn't. However, at lower levels where you have all volunteers coaching with no assistants or volunteer assistants and untrained volunteers at the scorers table I would. Let me clarify that this is a COURTESY, not a requirement. I still believe that if the scorers table does not inform us we are not required to inform the coach. We cannot supply information that was not given to us and the rules do not state that we are supposed to seek this information out.


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