Beginner Ref With Questions
 

Hey guys,

So i'm a first year ref, officiating 3rd,4th,5th and sometimes 6th grade. 3rd and 4th grade is pretty easy as alot of calls that aren't fouls are fairly easy to call. However, I had a terrible time with 5th and 6th grade reffing this past weekend so I thought I would ask.

As far as officiating itself goes, what do you do if your unsure of the immediate call but you need to report it? I had an incident this weekend where I(being a beginner ref) called a charge as team a was driving to the basket. I accidently started the block signal, then switched it. I mean it was hard to say, all in all I think a block call might of been a better call thinking back, but there were alot of people there, and I as well as my other ref was getting a lot of mouth from one of the coaches.

I called the charge and that couch just went insane. He wrote our names down at the end of the game, and reported us to our sup(who being as we were new, wasn't all too sympathetic to the coach). Anyways, how do you cope with feeling rushed by the fans and coaches with calls? I blow my whistle, but my new officiating mind still needs a second to think about what I saw, however the coach took it as unprofessional when I went to discuss it with the other ref.

Second, I had a few calls that I was a bit unsure of. A basic traveling call is obvious when a player is dribbling, stops his dribble, and walks. What about though when he falls? I know he can't get up, but what if just his knee touches? Does that player have to stay in that position until he releases the ball?

Also, whats the rule of offensive players and defensive players camping in the key? I did see offensive players(without ball) inthe key several times for quite a while, and same with defensive. Is defensive 3 second rule in play at this level? I know there is such a rule for the NBA.

How is a intential foul called and handled?

What about a technical? If it's on the coach, does he get thrown out with one or two?

I have done research but I am a bit confused so if you could clear this up for me that'd be great. Thanks,

Carson.

Hello Carson!!!
 

Welcome to the Zoo with Zebras and howler monkeys... (You will understand this as you hang out here.)

The healthiest thing you can do to improve as an official is:
-- get more experience on he floor
-- bury your nose in the rules book
-- find a helpful mentor that is accessible
-- monitor this forum
-- attend a camp
-- join the local association
-- do not base your performance on what fans, players, or coaches think (they have an inherent bias)
-- HAVE FUN!

Coaches generally don't know many of the rules. Especially for the levels that you are officiating. I work high school games, mostly JV but some varsity and I am working to move up.

-Learn the rules, you need to know them better than the coaches (that generally is easy)
-Take the test for your local association, many times that is a state association.
-Find a camp for the summer (one that is geared to new officials if there are any in your area, I would assume that there are.)
-Find a mentor, it can be someone that you work with one game but check with them to make sure that its ok if you call them for advice.
-Forget the fans, coaches, and players. YOU make the call. However, MAKE THE CALL, don't question yourself on the way over the table. Question yourself after its over, at a time out or after the game.
-Ask questions of those that have been there before. Most of us have been right where you are now. Few of us started at a higher level.
-finally as Willie said HAVE FUN!! most of us do not do this because of the money (thats not to say that we would do this for free) we don't get paid enough to not enjoy it.

Okay so which rule book should I be reading? Theres NCAA, Fiba and a bunch of others I dont even remember. Where can I find this book?

You need to find out what rule set your game is played under: whether it is NFHS, NCAA, or FIBA. Also, at the youth level, there are possibly local rules/modifications. As an example, our CYO JV (4th-6th grade) level does not allow full court pressing or trapping outside the arc after a 10 point lead. Our public middle school league, on the other hand, has a 15 point no press rule.

I often have to remind the officials of this, even the veteran ones, because Middle School and lower levels have so many different local rules, it's hard to keep up with them.

Well I know we do have modifications, and I know them as well, but there are several rules I just want to clear up. Such as, would you call a double-foul on a Charge/Block situation if you couldn't determine which was committed?

Oh and I double-checked, were operating under the " National Federation of State High School Athletic Associations". I can probably google the rulebook

No. One official should call one foul or the other foul. Never call both.

If you want to move up and do this for a while, it would do you well to buy a copy of the rule book. There isn't a copy of the NFHS rule book available on line, that I know of, for free.

1. You need to decide if the defender had position. This does not mean they need to be set, they need to be in position. Once they establish Legal Guarding Position, they may actually be moving backwards or sideways when contact is made and still draw the charging foul against the offense. Coaches at the sub-varsity level of high school sometimes have a hard time with this one, so you can expect problems at the elementary level. In my opinion, if it's close enough to question, give the foul to the offense; thus rewarding good defense.

2. A coach going berserk in a youth game like this is going to be a quick T for me. Let him ask his question if he wants, but he does not get to yell at you and berate you for (what he thinks) missing a call.

3. A coach asking for my name to report me is likely to get a T as well. That's a threat.

4. You just have to learn how to ignore fans.

5. A player who falls with the ball in his possession travels. A player who gathers the ball while on the floor may slide, but may not roll or attempt to get up. Does this help?

6. Only the NBA has a rule against defenders "camping in the key." In NFHS and NCAA rules, it only applies to players whose team is in control with the ball in the front court.

7. Intentional fouls are called by crossing the arms in an X. The fouled player gets 2 free throws, and the fouled team will get a throwin at the spot nearest the foul.

8. Generally, two technical fouls are required before disqualification. The exception is if the first is considered flagrant.

Shaq, that was actually really helpful thank you. In regards to the "legal guarding position", what exactly does that constitute? Watching youtube videos, i've seen players get called with the charge when the defender was set, but moved slightly sideways into the shooter.

Your right though about coaches and those calls at this level.

Also, let me make sure I have this right. You call an "illegal screen", when a player who is set into a screen moves to impeed the path of an offensive player with or without the ball correct? If its a "blind screen", then no foul is called. Now if an offensive player screens and a defensive player runs over him, this is a charge correct? Would an illegal screen mechanic be the same for a block?

I just have these few situational questions so thanks for your input

Slow down; take a breath....

Blow your whistle and raise your fist, keeping your eyes on the players involved. While you hold it up high, think about your call. Holding that fist high and long shows that you know what you're talking about. (A quick up-down fist may give the impression that you didn't want to make the call or that you were indecisive.)

[With your fist in the air and your arm locked, nobody will do anything until you call the foul. Everyone else has to wait on you.]

Then, when you have *your call* clear in your head, make the call.

Unless it is a violation. Open hand for one of those.

Again, I highly recommend getting a rule book. Rule 4 is where you should start, Definitions. That said, LGP is gained when a defender has two feet on the floor facing his opponent. Note, there's no time requirement, nor is there a requirement that he be stationary to gain LGP. Once LGP is gained, it may be maintained by moving sideways or backwards as long as the player is not moving into the offensive player when contact occurs.

I wouldn't call it an "illegal screen." Call it a block or a push or (maybe) a hold.

Defending a player with the ball is different than a player without the ball. On ball defenders have more rights than off ball, as far as movement is concerned. Off ball, screening principals apply to both sides. On ball, the defender does not need to provide time or distance as long as he is either in LGP or stationary.

Blind screens off ball must provide time and distance (no more than 1 step) or the screener can be called for a foul. If a blind screen has provided sufficient distance, then the contact may be severe without a foul so long as the screened player attempts to stop upon contact.

You are correct, running through a screen is a charging foul.

There is no "illegal screen" mechanic. It's a foul, either blocking, pushing, charging, or holding. Is the mechanic that fits the nature of the foul. If you verbalize it when you report, don't say "illegal screen."

For the love of God, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

I wouldn't think so, but I keep hearing the term "blarge" in reference to it. Like this video here: YouTube - Block Charge Play Seems like an obvious charging to me as the player was in a LGP, but no call?

This was a no call. What does it have to do with a blarge?

Carsongamer - my $.02. First, welcome to the Forum and officiating!

As has been stated: read the rules and cases if you can get them, watch other games and officials and learn from them - good and bad, slow down, be confident and in charge, and have fun.

Now, that being said, don't get ahead of yourself. At these younger levels I have found if you start at and know the basics: specific league rules (press allowed?, mercy rule? zone defense allowed?), travel, double dribble, foul, jump ball, and 3-seconds you are off to a good start as these are where most of your calls are at this level. Also, work on where to stand and good mechanics and avoid bad habits.

Then, as you gain more experience worry about some of these tougher calls - blarge, jump stop, intentional foul, double fouls, etc.

As I always tell younger or inexperienced officials - blow the whistle loud, make the call with confidence, and put the ball in play. By doing this, the coaches and fans don't have time to think, question, protest, yap, etc. about the play they "think" you missed or got wrong. If you act with authority and look like you know what you're doing (dress for success helps), this can be a major step in winning the battle!

The Forum is certainly a great place to pickup good advice and guidance - welcome aboard and good luck!

A blarge is a very specific play in which each official has a whistle and both immediately signal their call. If, on the same play, one official comes in signaling hard for a PC (charge) and the other comes in just as hard signaling a block, the rule says you go with the double foul. By rule, a "blarge" is otherwise impossible, but this resolution prevents other issues. And the threat of it probably prevents opposing calls in the first place.

I agree with Snaq but will amplify: coaches don't get to yell at you even if you did miss a call. Be careful how you handle it, though. At the first instance of yelling, tell the coach, "Coach, I'd be happy to listen to your question, but we're not going to yell today."

At the start of my second year, I blew a call. A1 goes up for a shot, B1 gets a hand on the ball, A1 comes down with it. Tweet! Travel, we're going the other way.

Well, crap, I thought, that should have been a held ball. The A coach is hollering: "that's a jump ball! that's a jump ball!" As I run past him, I nod and say, "You're right, coach, sorry."

He looked at me, started to say something, then just said, "Thank you." Didn't have a problem with him after that.

what about calling a travel or 3s
 

Hey guys

thanks for the awesome tips.

I am a new referee as well.

i wonder if I am in doubt wether to call a charge or a block could I call a travel just for the sake of calling something?

thanks

Ha!
Just work hard to make the right call. :)

Yeah, I wouldn't "make up" a call just to have something since you are unsure of what you have, it will get you into more trouble than if you got the call wrong.

If this is a serious question, you have adjustments to make.

Yes that is a serious question

If you are in doubt you don't want to punish someone for your mistakes.

Block/Charge is one of the hardest calls to make, especially for new officials because a lot of times it happens so quick. With time this call gets easier to make. Just know that you have 3 options, charge (player control), block or no call. Typically whatever call you make, the opposing team isn't going to like it so you will just have to learn to ignore it.

Blow the whistle, raise your hand in a fist, take a second to replay the situation in your mind then make the call with confidence.

Carsongamer,
I usually carry my rulebook & casebook from the previous year until I find a young official who wants them.
If you know any high school officials in your area, ask them if they have any books. There may be a minor change or two in a year-old book, but it will be good to get you going.

And put the ball in play!

Thanks a lot guys for your help

christianH,
Keep trying to get better. The more experience you have, the more the game slows down.

Definitely agree with that statement.

Only one time where it didn't. I used to officiate a men's league that was comprised of almost all former D1 (a lot only a few years removed), ex-Euro and ex-NBAers. That league was tough to keep up with, especially since it was 2 man. Games were typically in the 130's, 140's with a 22 minute running half clock.

Safe to assume you and your partner didn't switch on every foul in those games? :eek:

Advice from a 1st yr ref
 

Carsongamer:
As a newbie ref the one bit of advice that I can give you is this..you've come to the right place looking for help. These guys&gals are great... they'll set you on the right path to becoming a good official, and will always be there to help you with questions on rules, mechanics, game management, etc. Many of these same forum members who responded to your OP have given me tons of good solid advice and direction this past season (my first) and were a big part in my having a successful rookie year.
Good luck with your career and welcome to the forum.

May explode if recharged improperly.
 

just another ref: Please tell us what you really think.

Allow four to six weeks for delivery.
 

Unlike Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., who keeps his old rulebooks, and casebooks, in his attic, sorry, I mean his library.

This post brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.

Travel
 

These posts got me thinking about a travel call. A1 with ball, stationary, loses balance, touches floor with ball while holding on with two hands and pushes himself back up. Does not move pivot. I know A1 can touch the floor with a hand while holding the ball and keeping his pivot, but I was looking for some clarification on this situation. Thank you!

there's no rule against it.

In fact, there's a specific rule / case allowing it.

The best thing that I can say is that your area may have an instructional summer league for middle school students. See if they have referees or a camp that goes along with this. In my area they did. You need to learn the rules and see plays. Only after you have seen the same sort of occurrence will you truly be able to tell what has happened. The advantage to this is that because its instructional, the coaches understand that you may be learning as well. Not sure what area you are in but ask the officials that you work with. Also try and pick their brains on plays that you have questions about but do this during a time out, half time, or after the game.

See plays, and have fun.