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hbioteach Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:02am

Game venting.
 
Arrive at game, 35 minutes before gametime. Partner has called me earlier in the day to confirm site location. Partner shows up 5 minutes before gametime. COuldn't get in the school.

GV game. Urban home school vs suburban away school.
I'm the R. Partner in pregame wants to, "Let em play if we can".
Tipoff. Physical game. Lots of contact. Very quickly in the bonus.
I call a PC against home point guard. Coach not happy. Home team up 20 2nd Q.

Collision on a loose ball later in the Q. Visitor player is injured. Home coach complaining about PC call to partner while injury is being dealt with.

Next thing I know. Partner is asking if coach wants a tech. Coach is wants a technical. No Profanity. NO verbal abuse from coach. Partner ejects head coach.

I end of giving T to assistant for not staying seated.
Ugly game.

What a difference from Div III W game on Tuesday.

grunewar Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbioteach (Post 579007)
Partner shows up 5 minutes before gametime. Couldn't get in the school.

I'm the R. Partner in pregame wants to, "Let em play if we can".

Musta been a great pregame! I hate that! :(

ref2coach Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbioteach (Post 579007)
Collision on a loose ball later in the Q. Visitor player is injured. Home coach complaining about PC call to partner while injury is being dealt with.

IF PC means Player Control foul. Then does not the coach have a valid complaint. How can a Player Control foul be called when the ball is loose?

zm1283 Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ref2coach (Post 579037)
IF PC means Player Control foul. Then does not the coach have a valid complaint. How can a Player Control foul be called when the ball is loose?

He's talking about the PC foul he called on the PG earlier in the game.

OHBBREF Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbioteach (Post 579007)
I end of giving T to assistant for not staying seated.

I could be mistaken here but if the head coach was ejected - why did the Assistant have to stay seated?
those T's do not carry over if I recall correctly - once the head coach is gone the next guy gets a clean slate unless there was a direct issued to the assistant.

Adam Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 579083)
I could be mistaken here but if the head coach was ejected - why did the Assistant have to stay seated?
those T's do not carry over if I recall correctly - once the head coach is gone the next guy gets a clean slate unless there was a direct issued to the assistant.

I believe there's an interp that clearly states that the coaching box is lost for the entire team for the entire game. Why should a team benefit from their head coach getting a 2nd T?

Scratch85 Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 579083)
I could be mistaken here but if the head coach was ejected - why did the Assistant have to stay seated?
those T's do not carry over if I recall correctly - once the head coach is gone the next guy gets a clean slate unless there was a direct issued to the assistant.

I believe it is the use of the "coaching box" that is lost, regardless off who is acting as head coach. IMO, there is no clean slate.

M&M Guy Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 579083)
I could be mistaken here but if the head coach was ejected - why did the Assistant have to stay seated?
those T's do not carry over if I recall correctly - once the head coach is gone the next guy gets a clean slate unless there was a direct issued to the assistant.

We've had this discussion before. Some feel the head coach has already lost the coaching box priviledges due the first T, so whoever is acting as the head coach following that point has the same restrictions. There is also nothing in the rules that supports a "restoration" of the coaching box.

OHBBREF Fri Feb 13, 2009 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 579107)
We've had this discussion before. Some feel the head coach has already lost the coaching box priviledges due the first T, so whoever is acting as the head coach following that point has the same restrictions. There is also nothing in the rules that supports a "restoration" of the coaching box.

the question is this if since the technicals do not carry over, and this guy has a clean slate so to speak, how do you keep him from using the coaches box. This is the head coach now and has done nothing to lose the privlege of the box>

I would have a hard time coming up with something that says he is seated.
Go back to the head coach gets ejected before the start of the game for players dunking the ball. the assistant takes over for the game you are going to I do not know by rule how you can keep him down.

Ref Ump Welsch Fri Feb 13, 2009 01:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 579116)
the question is this if since the technicals do not carry over, and this guy has a clean slate so to speak, how do you keep him from using the coaches box. This is the head coach now and has done nothing to lose the privlege of the box>

I would have a hard time coming up with something that says he is seated.
Go back to the head coach gets ejected before the start of the game for players dunking the ball. the assistant takes over for the game you are going to I do not know by rule how you can keep him down.

Most assistant coaches wouldn't know how to use the box...it's like a foreign country to them! :rolleyes:

chartrusepengui Fri Feb 13, 2009 01:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 579116)
the question is this if since the technicals do not carry over, and this guy has a clean slate so to speak, how do you keep him from using the coaches box. This is the head coach now and has done nothing to lose the privlege of the box>

:eek:

No, - this is still the assistant coach who had to take over for the head coach. The head coach just happens to be in the locker room. I don't believe that the head coach was fired, and the AC applied and interviewed for the HC position in this short span. Therefore he is an AC and never had the privledge of a coaching box and still doesn't! :(

Adam Fri Feb 13, 2009 01:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 579116)
the question is this if since the technicals do not carry over, and this guy has a clean slate so to speak, how do you keep him from using the coaches box. This is the head coach now and has done nothing to lose the privlege of the box>

I would have a hard time coming up with something that says he is seated.
Go back to the head coach gets ejected before the start of the game for players dunking the ball. the assistant takes over for the game you are going to I do not know by rule how you can keep him down.

Because he is the assistant coach.

For that matter, where does it say he's the head coach? The head coach has been tossed. We grant him some of the same rights (timeouts, correctable errors) and responsibilities (control of his bench), but nothing says he's the "head coach."

Again, why should a team benefit from the HC getting one more TF?

Scratch85 Fri Feb 13, 2009 01:44pm

IMO, it doesn't matter if the remaining coach is deemed the HC or an AC, the first technincal charged directly or indirectly to the HC results in THE "LOSS OF COACHING BOX PRIVELEGES"

It is the "coaching box privelege" that is gone. Nothing more, nothing less.

OHBBREF Fri Feb 13, 2009 03:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch85 (Post 579140)
IMO, it doesn't matter if the remaining coach is deemed the HC or an AC, the first technincal charged directly or indirectly to the HC results in THE "LOSS OF COACHING BOX PRIVELEGES"

It is the "coaching box privelege" that is gone. Nothing more, nothing less.

But it does mater about the HC or AC because of what happens with direct and indirect technical fouls.
there are scenarios where this could be an issue, (while I do not want to be the official involved), there could be a scenario where the coach now in charge could be ejected also for the accumulation of direct and indirect technicals also. So if the replacement remains the assisitant coach what happens to bench technicals who are they charged to?

Raymond Fri Feb 13, 2009 03:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 579189)
But it does mater about the HC or AC because of what happens with direct and indirect technical fouls.
there are scenarios where this could be an issue, (while I do not want to be the official involved), there could be a scenario where the coach now in charge could be ejected also for the accumulation of direct and indirect technicals also. So if the replacement remains the assisitant coach what happens to bench technicals who are they charged to?

Good question, but that does change the fact that the coaches box privileges are gone once the head coach receives his first T. Whoever replaces the HC does not get the privilege of the coaches box.

Scratch85 Fri Feb 13, 2009 03:41pm

FWIW, If I am calling a HS game and the HC gets tossed, The adult that replaces him/her will be deemed the HC. Directs and Indirects will now go to that person as required by rule. Other HC priveleges that were available (calling TO's, standing to applaude, etc.) at the time of the ejection are also available for the new HC.

jearef Fri Feb 13, 2009 03:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 579193)
Good question, but that does change the fact that the coaches box privileges are gone once the head coach receives his first T. Whoever replaces the HC does not get the privilege of the coaches box.

I have always thought that once the box is lost, it is lost for everyone. That being said, OHBBREF raises a valid point. I think this one is worthy of its own thread.

Adam Fri Feb 13, 2009 03:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jearef (Post 579198)
I have always thought that once the box is lost, it is lost for everyone. That being said, OHBBREF raises a valid point. I think this one is worthy of its own thread.

Let me just pose this question.

Do you really think the rules committee wants the team to gain an advantage (renewed use of the coaching box) from their coach earning a 2nd direct T?

deecee Fri Feb 13, 2009 04:00pm

Another scenario thats an eyebrow raiser. The assistant coach is still just that. The head coach has been tossed. The assistant is granted privledges that the HC had and didnt have prior to the tossing. One of those lost privledges the right to the box. He doesn't have that.

Adam Fri Feb 13, 2009 04:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 579209)
Another scenario thats an eyebrow raiser. The assistant coach is still just that. The head coach has been tossed. The assistant is granted privledges that the HC had and didnt have prior to the tossing. One of those lost privledges the right to the box. He doesn't have that.

The way I look at it, he's filling in. He gets the same abilities the HC had when he left. He can do what the HC was able to do (request TO, stand to cheer a play, etc.), and cannot do what the HC had lost the ability to do (stand in the box).

deecee Fri Feb 13, 2009 04:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 579214)
The way I look at it, he's filling in. He gets the same abilities the HC had when he left. He can do what the HC was able to do (request TO, stand to cheer a play, etc.), and cannot do what the HC had lost the ability to do (stand in the box).

I am in agreeance with you. I just re-read what I typed and I think I confused myself...

Adam Fri Feb 13, 2009 04:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 579216)
I am in agreeance with you. I just re-read what I typed and I think I confused myself...

I knew you agreed with me on this one, I was just elaborating further.

Scratch85 Fri Feb 13, 2009 04:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 579214)
The way I look at it, he's filling in. He gets the same abilities the HC had when he left. He can do what the HC was able to do (request TO, stand to cheer a play, etc.), and cannot do what the HC had lost the ability to do (stand in the box).

That looks like my post. At least give me a footnote or something. :D

Adam Fri Feb 13, 2009 04:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch85 (Post 579222)
That looks like my post. At least give me a footnote or something. :D

I don't know how.

M&M Guy Fri Feb 13, 2009 04:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 579225)
I don't know how.

I agree with Scratch85. :D

Adam Fri Feb 13, 2009 06:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 579236)
I agree with Scratch85. :D

"Shut up." Jurassic Referee, 2007


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