First horn white!
 

Why do we do this?

There is this incredibly loud horn, then we stand there and state the freaking obvious...that yes, that loud horn was in fact the first horn, so maybe pretty please could you break your huddle and come out and play basketball now?

Seriously - I feel like an idiot every time I do that. They know it was the first horn, so why do I have to tell them? They know that 15 seconds later there will be a second horn as well. If they cannot hear the very loud buzzing noise, then certainly they cannot hear me telling them there was just a very loud buzzing noise, right?

Of course, they aren't going to break their huddle until that second horn anyway, so why bother?

The answer: because someone thinks that we should get the game going faster, and rather than just having the balls to do what is necessary to accomplish that, we are going to *pretend* to do something about it, rather than *actually* do something about it.

If we really want the clock to start at that second horn, then we should be instructed to not tell them anything they already know, and simply place the ball in play after the second horn. Problem solved, if we did this every time.

Alternatively, if it isn't that important, then we should continue to tolerate the huddle breaking some number of seconds after the second horn, and the ball being put into play some number of seconds later.

In either case, I don't see the point in us standing there telling them something they already know.

If done correctly, it works well. Around here, they always break between the first and second horn.

The NHL said that they wanted faceoffs to happen quicker than they were. Players were skating around in circles, or not coming into the faceoff circle until they and their teammates were ready. The NHL said "enough of this crap" and created the rule that the faceoff will happen fifteen seconds after the whistle that stopped the play.

I loved the looks on players' faces when the puck was dropped and one team easily obtained possession. :) It was like poetry to me.

I wish Fed would do the same. Fifteen seconds after the first, the ball is put into play: whether it's to the offensive team with the defense still in the huddle, or the D ready and the O running to a ball already on the ground.

I have adopted a bit of the NHL style when I administer a throw-in. :cool:

I've seen some guys get milked like they have 6 utters.

I personally don't feel like an idiot doing it and sometimes for whatever reason other than maybe just wrapped up in trying to relay information to the team, coaches don't always hear the horn.

So they don't hear that horn, but they can hear you?

I don't buy it - they are ignoring the horn, because they know they will get away with it.

Really? If they haven't broke the huddle by the second horn, the ball does go on the floor or to their opponent (within reason). The coaches are told in the pre-game captains meeting to get everyone onto the floor after the first horn because we will start on the second horn. After a time or two of the ball being made live after the second horn, they learn to break the huddle.

I don't like extended timeouts so we get them going immediately

-Josh

See, this is the key, and is pretty much my point.

If you do that, you don't need to stand there telling them that the really loud noise they just heard was the first horn.

If you are not willing to put the ball into play (and around here we are not) when the second horn sounds, then there isn't any point in going on about it being the first horn.

Either case, announcing the horn is silly.

You are not announcing anything. You are there to hurry them up if need be.

Peace

It's silly because your area doesn't enforce this rule. I agree...why have horns at all? Coaches and teams will let you know when they are ready to play...:(

So 30 second timeouts are really 30-60 seconds long? 60 second timeouts are really 60-180 seconds? hmm...Enforce the rules, resumption of play procedure (4-38, 7-5-1, etc)...Sounds like you have the authority to get the game going, use it!

Heck, I even use ROP procedures in non-high school games. Get it moving!

-Josh

Of course not - 30 second timeout are sometimes 40 seconds though, by the time everyone breaks the huddle at 30 and gets into position. 60 seconds are sometimes 70.

I *could* take it upon myself to place the ball on the floor at 30 and 60 exactly - but I would be the only one in the area doing so, and would likely result in not having any games rather quickly.

I agree that there is an easy solution to this - but my point is that the solution has nothing to do with announcing horns, which basically amounts to begging them to do what they should be doing anyway.

Around here, the prevailing attitude is that the teams ahve until the final horn to huddle - then they are expected to come out and play - NOT that they are expected to be ready to play at the second horn. Shrug.

I don't really mind, to be honest - a few seconds is no big deal to me, if that is how they want it enforced. I just find the announcing of the horn bit ridiculous. It accomplishes nothing.

It is silly whether you enforce the rule or not though.

If you do not, it doesn't matter, and if you do, it isn't necessary.

Then do not do it. I do not think anyone here cares (I almost forgot) what you do. ;)

Peace

I can remember huddles when the horn was not heard.
First horn is, for me, the best time to use the Assistant Coach.
I let him know and I leave.

First of all, some officials are quick to get the clock started on a time out -- getting the clock started well before the players are even close to being in the bench area. Solution: Wait until the teams are near the bench area (determine the type of time out during this interval), report the time out and have the timer start the clock. This allows a 30 second time-out to be close to 30 seconds (actually, effectively about 22 - 24 seconds). I have never understood (other than greed and selfishness) why an official is in such a hurry to shorten an already-short event even further.

As JRut pointed out, the purpose of the communication is to get the "still-huddled" team ready for play by the 2nd horn. I will give the teams a quick instruction as well (whose ball, run of baseline, direction of throw-in, etc. along with number of time outs left if 2 or less). These instructions are much more useful for the sub-varsity games, but there are times when a sub has entered the game during the time out and knowing where the ball is to be put in play is helpful -- and gets the teams to the right spot quicker.

We really do not have a problem with delays after the second horn. I have virtually never had to place the ball on the ground -- I HATE that mechanic. We try to use the first horn as the indication that play will begin shortly. I expect to resume about 5 seconds or so after the second horn -- and usually, we do.

But, even if one of the teams takes an extra 10 seconds getting out of EVERY HUDDLE for EVERY TIME OUT we have added less than TWO MINUTES to the overall length of a game (assuming each team takes their full complement of 5 time outs). Not that it has ever happened, but if it had, Berkut, are you willing to get your underwear in a bunch over TWO MINUTES???

The mechanic is in place to keep the game moving at a reasonable pace AND to signify the end of legal subs before the ball is put in play. It is not to prove that you heard the horn.

Relax. Enjoy the game. Life is too short to be worrying about a couple seconds here and a couple seconds there. Heck, you probably wasted that much time just reading this post. Use Reading Resumption Procedures and get to the next post, quickly.

Another solution is this: If teams are slow to come out, then start the clock earlier. It accomplishes the same thing. I wait until the teams are comfortably in their huddle before starting the clock, but if they delay, I'll start it a bit quicker the next time.

I am loathe to put the ball down, but I'll do it if it gets out of hand. Like berkut's area, most teams break on the second huddle. As long as they are moving towards the inbounds spot, I don't get worked up over it. I mean, most games are over in 65-70 minutes anyway, another couple of seconds isn't going to mean I won't get to the bar after the game.

I don't think you understand what I am saying.

I don't really care if we take a few extra seconds every time out. That is fine with me, as long as it is fine with my assignors.

My point, however, is that the mechanic where the official announces to everyone that the loud noise was the first horn is, IMO, rather silly, and a poor way to indicate...well, anything that wasn't just indicated by that rather loud noise you just heard.

I am not worried about the time - although I think some people are, since we seem to talk about it in meetings pretty much every year. I think the "First horn!" mechanic is a token effort to somehow address this, without actually addressing it.

This I agree with though - it is a 30 or 60 second timeout, to start when BOTH teams are at their bench. That is what we are taught, and that is what I do.

"Full time out, white, [coach or player#]"
[wait until both teams are at their bench]
"Run it"

Never been sure what the hurry was...and why piss someone off because they think they got jobbed on something as silly as a few seconds of timeout?

I dont understand why we argue points that will maybe prolong the game by 1-2minutes or have you take 2 extra steps to get things going. Just put the effort in and stop whining about it. IF you dont want to do it then dont. Its your choice what you do, just stop crying about the little details that just help you be proactive rather than reactive.

My goodness. Whininig and crying? If you really hate talking about other views so much, would you not be better off just ignoring a post like this, rather than getting personal and unpleasant with others?

Ahhh, the wonders of the anonymous internet, and the safety of being unpleasant to strangers.

Does announcing that the loud noise was a horn make me proactive rather than reactive? How so? I would love to know your views on this, if you can communicate them without the nasty little comments.

Berkut,
From my previous post.....As JRut pointed out, the purpose of the communication is to get the "still-huddled" team ready for play by the 2nd horn. I will give the teams a quick instruction as well (whose ball, run of baseline, direction of throw-in, etc. along with number of time outs left if 2 or less). These instructions are much more useful for the sub-varsity games, but there are times when a sub has entered the game during the time out and knowing where the ball is to be put in play is helpful -- and gets the teams to the right spot quicker.

I don't simply use the first horn to say first horn white. I use it when the team is still in its huddle. I also communicate this additional information.

BTW, this is my real name and real identity and I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. And I do not think I have said a single thing that was nasty or out of line. If you do not want to do this, do not do it. And as I said before, I do not think anyone here really cares what you do. You asked a question and you got an answer. Life will go on. ;)

Peace

No where did i get personal. I am asking a question as to whats the purpose of this? A lot of things we do in officiating IS NOT REQUIRED or necessary its a courtesy. Going back and forth rehashing a point does not change it. IF you dont want to do it then dont. Read what JRUT said. Thats my point.

I can certainly see the use of these kinds of instructions - although do you actually say this while the team is still in the huddle? I would worry that I was intruding or talking over the coach. I think I've made those kinds of instructions if they are warranted as the teams are out of the huddle, whose ball it is, where, etc., etc.

Fair enough - I likely am making a mountain out of it - I guess I was under the impression that the "First horn!" bit was an actual, required mechanic. That may have been an incorrect assumption, have to go check my manual.

And no, I don't think you have said anything that was nasty or out of line - I was not responding to you, but to decee, who for some odd reason had to get personal about it.

And yeah, life does have that way of going on...but isn't it more fun when you can ***** about the little things, even if they don't really matter all that much?

It is a required mechanic as far as I know. But just like anything, if you do not like it, do not do it. You might have to suffer some consequences, but all mechanics are not do or die. In my state they want us to stay with the huddle until they break up. It matters little to me either way. I do what is expected and I personally or I expect to suffer the consequences of my actions.

I did not get anything he said as personal. Then again I do think sometimes it is hard to convey feelings or attitude on a computer screen.

Peace