Player bumps ref last night
 

Kansas/Missouri last night. Kansas player is called for a foul. As he walked toward his bench, he intentionally bumped Scott Thornley. Thornley turned around with a look on his face like "Do you really just do that?" and T'd him.

In a HS game, I would also definitely have tossed. In a college game, I think I probably would have tossed. Never having worked the Big 12, I can't say whether I agree or disagree with a non-flagrant T in that situation.

Anybody else see it? What do you think about tossing the kid in that situation?

An intentional bump? In HS here in Ontario: flagrant for sure. College: my buddy says if it's a light bump, T. But ejection is possible.

I watched it a couple times. It wasn't flagrant in college. Personally, I thought they just didn't get out of each other's way. Neither the player or the official made much of an attempt to go around each other and they slightly bumped shoulders.

My thirteen year old saw it and he has better judgement than half my partners..........he thought it was intentional.

I slowed it down on TIVO and you could see that the player leaned into the official. It was intentional.

Reminds me of someone.......named OJ

I had no problem with the T. I did not think he was ejected, but I would not have minded if that took place.

Peace

Doesn't NCAA rules allow you to goto the monitor in this type of situation?

I hope school/ coach and league follow up with a more severe punishment!

Agreed! This sort of action would send a strong message.

I am not sure if they could or not, but if you make a call you do not need the monitor to tell you what happened. You go to the monitor to see if there is a normal play is intentional or flagrant. Or you can find the fouling player.

Peace

I saw it when it happened, and was surprised by the T. Then I saw the replay and thought, OK, I can see getting a T there.

I didn't think of a flagrant until you mentioned it. Still seems a bit of a pissing contest to me.

Speaking of this game..

Did anyone see the 5 second count against KU? I'm an MU fan and laughed the whole time.

I am a big KU fan and I thought the bump was intentional when it happened and still thought that after watching the replays. I don't think he was ejected but he didn't play after that. I think Self just benched him. About the "5" second call??? Don't want to talk about it.

I actually saw that and was very curious, so before they showed the replay I rewound it on Tivo and used a stopwatch. If you start it the MOMENT the inbounder is out of bounds it was 5.0 seconds when the player touched the ball! (That being said, the first time I timed it I only had 4.5...)

yeah, it was a bit suspect at best. the replay showed he whistled it on the fourth visible count, and this as the ball was being thrown in. my wife (a die hard ku fan), who usually hates watching any sporting event because i stick up for the officials 98.2% of the time (she's a coach :)), looked at me and said, "what do you think about that one?" i didn't say much, because i kind of agreed with her. i think we got hosed on that one. [fanboy hat off now]

Disagree. First of all, the official might not have begun his visible count at "1." That might be poor mechanics, but we often see NCAA officials not counting during a throw-in after a made basket.

Second, KU was taking longer than usual to pick up the ball after a made basket. The count might have begun before the player touched the ball, if the official judged that the ball was "at the disposal" of the thrower.

So I'd agree only that the call appeared suspect. It might have been correct. ;)

I was at the game sitting 8 rows behind the KU bench. On the T, Thornley and Self had a conversation and it appeared Thornley said that along with the bump the KU player voiced his displeasure at the call. So you not only had a bump but a verbal. Whether he gets booted or not Self imposed his own penalty and did not play him the rest of the game and banished him to the walk on end of the bench.
On the 5 second call, which seemed quick, Self signaled to Hartzell that it was a 4 count and Hartzell fired back by holding up 6 fingers like he waited even longer.
Even though the outcome was not what I was looking for the atmoshere was great for the game.

eh... we'll probably just ending up having to agree to disagree, but i would have a VERY hard time calling a 5 second count when i had only visibly counted to four. coaches actually watch that type of thing sometimes. and even so, both teams had been taking their time picking up their ball to begin their throw-in throughout the second half. like i said, i'm the first one to defend officiating, even against my own team, but he doesn't have much to hide behind here. we're often told we can only prove what we can see on tape, and the tape shows a 4 second count. :)

any ref who will go up to a coach, let alone a D1 coach and say, "i wasn't giving a visible count, but I was counting in my head," has more cajones than i do.

What would you be looking for if you went to the monitor?

I don't have my procedures with me but I believe that the only thing you could check the monitor for involving contact is flagrant or a fight.

If the contact was on the official - as a coach I would have a problem with an official who couldn't make that distinction w/o help.
His/her judgment would be in question the rest of the game -

muxy: rockchalk chickenhawk boo hoo :D I would of never suspected you to be an evil redlegger. I am severely disappointed.

For the record, I have no problem with the T for the player bumping the official. I just didn't think it was flagrant.

The 5-count was pretty suspect. You could see him start the count when the KU player picked the ball up and he got to four and hit the whistle.

Two sons have graduated from there and one currently a sophomore. They have been there at a great time with the resurgence of the football program and the national championship. Roch Chalk Jayhawk.