He wasn't set!!
 

BV game Fri night, A1 drives down the right side of the lane, B1 who had established LGP slides down the lane with him and takes it square in the chest, I have a clear PC foul...as I am reporting coach says to me "how can that be offensive, he wasn't set!" I just replied "coach he doesn't need to be "set" to draw a PC foul"...did not have any inclination to provide more than that at the time...after the game, my one partner and I are asking our significantly more experienced third partner how we did, etc, etc....his one comment to me "that one charge you called, i thought that was a block"

me: "why?"
him: "because he wasn't set"
me verbally: "ok thanks"
me internally "!@#$!@%#$%$@#%^"

He went on to say something to the effect that if you just call a block every time the guy isn't set, everyone in the gym will think you are right and nobody will say anything....I just bit my tongue...

Just say, "He was not in LGP." Leave it at that. If the coach is too dumb to know what that means, leave it alone.

I have learned in these situations to say less. You are not going to win an argument over the rule. If they do not know the rule, move on.

Peace

If your judgment has LGP being obtained, and then legal movement after that, then you did good.

The thing to wonder is if the 3rd guy thought LGP was obtained and maintained.

It just got me thinking about all the poor advice I'm sure I have gotten over the years and not thought twice about until I learned the hard way in a game situation, etc...just goes to show you that no matter how respected the source, it's best to do your own homework....

Possibly, but the more he talked the more it sounded to me like he was more concerned with "everyone in the gym" not questioning you if you just call a block when the player isn't "set"....the term LGP was never mentioned by him...

The title of this made me think I was in the Baseball Forum.:p

There's no question, so you should have no answer.

I totally and completely disagree.

If a fellow official is wrong. EXPLAIN IT TO HIM! If he still doesn't get it, EXPLAIN IT AGAIN!

Guys like this make all of our jobs more difficult. When they say something stupid and we don't attempt to correct them, we only add to the problem! :mad:

Just something to think about:

If this was an airborne shooter, YES, the defender does need to be set before the shooter leaves the floor. If he slides after the shooter leaps, that's a block.

Completely my fault. I misread the post and thought the coach was saying this.

I withdraw my previous statement.

*facepalm*

Rut:

Didn't you mean to say: "He was in a LGP."

MTD, Sr.

Yeah something like that.

Peace

Along the same line
 

A1 driving across the lane B1 moving in the same direction (parallel) to the baseline. A1 turns and lower his shoulder into B1 and drive right over him. Block, Charge, no call?

Why would it be a block? I see an easy PC when I read this.

How so? Defender is sliding to maintain his LGP. Dribbler picks up his dribble and jumps into him, trying to draw a foul. Defender continues to slide, parallel to the dribbler's original path.

As you gain more experience, you will come to find that "significantly more experienced" does not equate to being a better official. :D

Just wait until Jurassic gets here and sees that guy's advice to you concerning the crowd's reaction to calls. :eek: I would call that official a coward, but someone would surely get upset with me, so I'll just use the word spineless. ;)

I've just about given up encouraging my players to take a charge. Around here (NorCal), it seems like the ONLY time it's ever a charge call is if the defender was clearly stationary such as on the sideline in a trap situation when the dribbler doesn't stop and just goes through the defender.

I'm not going to teach something that is always called a block and just gets us in foul trouble.

One word answer to any response- v i d e o

I've noticed in two man crew it can be tough to see if a play is a charge or a block depending what else is going on. I've called a good deal of charges but they can be tricky plays especially on half-court sets.

That's a good point
 

Never thought about that. See, I come here and I learn about basketball. I think it would be great if all coaches had to come to this site and read the threads. One caveat- they can only read -can't post- for like at least 18 months.

I guess if it's not real clear, but there was clearly a lot of contact, the inclination would be to make the block call.

Coach, apparently you coach in the wrong state (geographically speaking). During a Boys Varsity game earlier in the year, we had five Player Control Fouls and only one Blocking Foul (in the six true Block/Charge scenarios during the course of the game). Officials referee the defense. If the defender obtains a legal guarding position, maintain that legal guarding position and the contact is initiated by the offense into the defender's torso, we are going the other way.

I was working 2-man a couple years ago and my partner raised his eyebrows and gave a funny look after I made a call. Now, this guy was supposed to be one of the best in the area (especially in his mind) and he gives me disapproving looks during the game. I never said anything but I learned that some who are perceived as good officials are not exactly team players. He definitely did not make it easy for his partner to work with him.

What I thought of was WHY was he looking into my area?

We have an assigner and instructor in our area who's teaching incorrectly. He wants a block when the defender has LGP and steps back to absorb the impact of an opponent. His rationale: "he gave up his spot on the floor."

Probably too late to address the issue this season in an association meeting...

I know this won't sound good coming from a long-time official, but I have a generalization about all sports: The offense gets away with murder.

I agree with you, I wish coaches were required to know the rules. In our state all head coaches are required to take the rules test, BUT they are not required to pass it. And, of course, all the other coaches are not required to take the test, so we have 90% of coaches who never have looked at a rule book. I think coaches should take the test and if they pass the test, then they receive a "license" to discuss rules during the game. That license is a patch on their shirt or a card that they show to the officials prior to the game. If you don't have a license, then you are not allowed to question calls or rulings. One poster had a good one last fall in the FB forum: "I'll talk to you about it coach if you can tell me what color the rule book is this year." :)

Lord Byron,
Had one of these a few nights ago.
I passed on the call, because by the time the defender, who had perfect position, stepped back [and kinda flopped], there wasn't enough contact to call.

I'm referring to 4-23-4b
Guarding an opponent with the ball or a stationary opponent without the ball:
If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor..

wow!

Unfortunately I do not think "Jurassic will get here". In one of his posts day before yesterday he objected to the OOO comments of a moderator and said he was "out of here" :(

That's a good no-call, Sir Mick. My complaint concerns the play where the dribbler goes right through the defender's chest, and this instructor is telling people to call a block because the defender (with LGP) took a step back.

Remember if you call everyone a block you will get a high score from coaches for being "consistent". Whatever that means.

Ha!
Had one of those inconsistent calls last week.

Post player gives a fake to send the defender straight up in the air.
While the defender was in the air, the post player steps about 30" under the hanging defender and, gravity being what it is, the defender comes down on the post player with the ball.
The fans weren't really comfortable with my player control foul. :)

I had same situation in a game a while back, GV, on a one on one fast break drive to the basket. The home coach literally jumped 2 feet in the air, arms extended, yelling, "She wasn't set"! Fans went bonkers of course. I walked over, and camly explained the rule to her. "Oh, ok, I didn't know that". "Well, coach, great, now can you please explain that to the lynch mob behind you"? And she did.