Rhythm hop

[phansen]

NFHS

Fast break for team A. A1 passes to A2 at the three point line. A2 receives the pass and takes a hop with both feet then shoots and scores. I respond with a whistle, no basket, and travel call. Coach proceeds to tell me that a rhythm hop is legal as long as a pivot foot is established. Had to think about that one!

I thought I'd heard it all, but it was good for a laugh on the ride home.

[JRutledge]

That is rather funny.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Could be a case where a little bit or knowledge is dangerous. A coach found a catch phrase, "establish a pivot foot".

I bet in 97%+ of cases, there is a pivot foot.

What a dumb comment by the coach.

[cardinalfan]

Is a rhythm hop anything like Lebron's crab dribble?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by phansen

NFHS

Fast break for team A. A1 passes to A2 at the three point line. A2 receives the pass and takes a hop with both feet then shoots and scores. I respond with a whistle, no basket, and travel call. Coach proceeds to tell me that a rhythm hop is legal as long as a pivot foot is established. Had to think about that one!

I thought I'd heard it all, but it was good for a laugh on the ride home.

If he catches the ball with one foot on the floor, he can hop off that foot, land on both feet, and then take a jump shot. Many players do this legally.

[bas2456]

I actually just got home from a game where I called two travels on plays exactly like this one.

A1 catches ball, both feet on the ground. Hops, then shoots. After I call the travel, he looks at me like he had never heard of a travel before.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bas2456

A1 catches ball, both feet on the ground. Hops, then shoots. After I call the travel, he looks at me like he had never heard of a travel before.

I wonder how many make this same call when A1 drives the lane, jumps off both feet, lands on both feet simultaneously and then jumps and shoots.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I wonder how many make this same call when A1 drives the lane, jumps off both feet, lands on both feet simultaneously and then jumps and shoots.

Hopefully everyone. If I'm envisioning the right play, this is a travel every time

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by phansen

NFHS

Fast break for team A. A1 passes to A2 at the three point line. A2 receives the pass and takes a hop with both feet then shoots and scores. I respond with a whistle, no basket, and travel call. Coach proceeds to tell me that a rhythm hop is legal as long as a pivot foot is established. Had to think about that one!

I thought I'd heard it all, but it was good for a laugh on the ride home.

I can tell you that this call is NOT made in my part of the country by 95+% of the officials. To me, this is clearly a travel, but it is not called. I have accepted the fact that it is not called -- I must admit that I do not call it anymore as I was in the less than 5% who called it last season. Defensive coaches do not expect this call to be made, anymore.

The truly perplexing scenario here is that many officials will allow players to do the hop AND then PIVOT or take a jab step before dribbling.

There is no way around the fact that by book rule this is a travel -- as a point of comparison I ask if a player can receive the ball on a jump stop, immediately go up in the air to take a jump shot only to return to the floor with the ball because the defender would have blocked the shot, EVERY OFFICIAL will tell me that this is a travel. But the bunny hop is legal? Same foot action, just a smaller jump.

Once again, I have stopped calling the bunny hop because virtually all other local officials are doing the same. But, clearly, from a pure Rules Book perspective, this is a travel.

The argument that I have heard from fellow officials is that the player has not yet established a pivot foot when he lands on both feet upon receiving the ball (jump stop). They claim that the since the player has not established a pivot foot, the player can land again -- because you can't travel until the pivot foot hits the ground after leaving the ground. Of course, the problem with this logic is that a player could, in theory, bunny hop his way all the way to the basket since both feet would be landing at the same time, no pivot foot would ever be established.

And no, this is not a case of the players sometimes "squaring in the air" BEFORE receiving the ball. These situations are clear cases of shooters -- frequently outside the arc -- catching the ball with both feet on the ground or catching the ball with both feet in the air and then landing, THEN hopping with BOTH feet off the ground and then returning to the ground again before shooting. If you call this in my neck of the woods, you will be in a very small minority of officials.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I wonder how many make this same call when A1 drives the lane, jumps off both feet, lands on both feet simultaneously and then jumps and shoots.

I think this is a legal play.

NFHS 4-44
ART. 2 . . . A player, who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. If both feet are off the floor and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot.
3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land
on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.
b. If one foot is on the floor:
1. It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step.
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both.
Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.
ART. 3 . . . After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.
ART. 4 . . . After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before
the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. Neither foot may be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

[Adam]

Wow, I've never even seen this play. I'd call it, though, without hesitation. Usually what we get is the jump stop where both feet do not land simultaneously.

[JoeT]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

I can tell you that this call is NOT made in my part of the country by 95+% of the officials. To me, this is clearly a travel, but it is not called.

This seems to be true where I am as well - especially in the girls game - especially just outside the 3-pt arc. It's sometimes a hop, sometimes a step without a dribble, and it is most often uncalled.

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

I must admit that I do not call it anymore as I was in the less than 5% who called it last season. Defensive coaches do not expect this call to be made, anymore.

Help me understand. In the first quote, you say it is "clearly a travel." So why aren't you calling it? As a coach, I agree that it is a travel, and I absolutely expect it to be called. As much as I enjoy all the glib comments on this board about "howler monkeys," I have to ask: Are you assuming that I "don't expect it to be called" just because I didn't complain? In that case, I guess I should have been complaining....

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by JoeT

This seems to be true where I am as well - especially in the girls game - especially just outside the 3-pt arc. It's sometimes a hop, sometimes a step without a dribble, and it is most often uncalled.



Help me understand. In the first quote, you say it is "clearly a travel." So why aren't you calling it? As a coach, I agree that it is a travel, and I absolutely expect it to be called. As much as I enjoy all the glib comments on this board about "howler monkeys," I have to ask: Are you assuming that I "don't expect it to be called" just because I didn't complain? In that case, I guess I should have been complaining....

JoeT,
I found that when I called this a travel, two things were happening during the game. First of all, my partners (regardless who they were) were NOT calling this a travel. Secondly, the coaches seemed to be complaining when I DID call this a travel. The coaches of the defensive teams did NOT complain when my partners did NOT make this call. Therefore, for consistency within the game, I stopped making this call. I virtually never hear a complaint about this not being called.

In addition, in games I watch, I almost never see this being called. I think that an important aspect of officiating is consistency.

[shishstripes]

I have seen the hop and have been calling it. I also had quite a few this weekend where ball is caught with two feet on the floor and step-step with the second step being pivot foot lifted and put back down.

Coach said "That's a pivot."

I said, "No, the first foot lifting was the pivot, the second was the pivot foot coming back to the floor."

My P was oblivious.

Another one that I was talking to the coaches about and you see it in the boy's side more is on a lay-in, the first step is the pivot foot landing and second foot is a pivot. But often they will drag the pivot foot to slow themselves down and get under control.

Why no call?

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

Another one that I was talking to the coaches about and you see it in the boy's side more is on a lay-in, the first step is the pivot foot landing and second foot is a pivot. But often they will drag the pivot foot to slow themselves down and get under control.

Why no call?

This one sounds like a standard lay-up to me. Both feet off the ground the moment the dribble is picked up/pass received. The first foot that lands becomes the pivot foot. The second foot then lands as the pivot foot leaves the floor. The second foot then leaves the floor and the ball is released. The pivot foot then lands. No travel because the pivot foot did not return to the floor before the ball was released for a try.

Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?