Can Some Answer My Question

[Truemagic2000]

Can someone please answer my question regarding the traveling violation rules.

The NBA RULE here Says g. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.

If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor.

My friend interprets that(after he has no dribbles left) as him being able to raise the pivot foot, and shoot or pass off the other foot, before he puts his pivot foot back down.

Here's a scenerio: Say he's dribbling the ball and then he comes to a stop, he loses his dribble, and his pivot foot is his left foot. So he can pretty much move his right foot anywhere as long as his left foot (pivot foot) is touching the floor. Now, according to him and his interpretation of the rules.
He's says your able to lift your (his left foot)pivot foot and shoot off the other foot(right foot) and that's not traveling because the rules say. (before his pivot foot returns to the floor) So he's saying(after he loses his dribble) he can hop or jump, lifting his pivot foot, which is his left and landing on his right foot, then he shoots or pass the ball.

My interpretation of that is, when a player loses his dribble, he's only able to either jump off his pivot foot and shoot or pass before he lands. Or jump off both feet and shoot or pass before his pivot foot lands. But he's not allowed to lift his pivot and jump off his other foot(non-pivot foot).

Can someone please explain to us which interpretation is correct.

[ChuckElias]

Hope you didn't make a big wager on this one. Your friend is correct. A player may lift his pivot foot to pass or shoot or stand there like a stork on his non-pivot foot. It's not a traveling violation until the pivot foot returns to the floor. Otherwise, 99% of the layups you see would be travels. In a layup, a player is dribbling to the basket. He ends his dribble by catching the ball while his right foot is on the ground. The right foot then becomes the pivot foot. But what almost always happens next? He picks up the right foot, steps onto his left foot, then jumps for the shot. That's perfectly legal b/c the right foot (pivot foot) never touched the floor again while he still had possession of the ball.

Also, if you couldn't lift the pivot foot, then you couldn't shoot a jump shot, could you?

Chuck

[BktBallRef]

Your friend gave you the rule. Why is it so hard to believe?

BTW, the rule is the same in high school and college.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Hope you didn't make a big wager on this one. Your friend is correct. A player may lift his pivot foot to pass or shoot or stand there like a stork on his non-pivot foot. It's not a traveling violation until the pivot foot returns to the floor. Otherwise, 99% of the layups you see would be travels. In a layup, a player is dribbling to the basket. He ends his dribble by catching the ball while his right foot is on the ground. The right foot then becomes the pivot foot. But what almost always happens next? He picks up the right foot, steps onto his left foot, then jumps for the shot. That's perfectly legal b/c the right foot (pivot foot) never touched the floor again while he still had possession of the ball.

Also, if you couldn't lift the pivot foot, then you couldn't shoot a jump shot, could you?

Chuck

Just as an added note, there's also an exception for a jump stop (which is also legal) - player is allowed to stop dribbling, step off of right foot (pivot) come down on both feet, jump and pass/shoot.

[Truemagic2000]

So, basicly what your saying is that once a player loses their dribble, and say that there pivot foot is the left foot, he's able to jump or maybe even take a really big leap to the left or to the right of the defender and shoot off the other foot(non-pivot foot).
Here's what i mean. I lose my dribble, so im able to jump or leap backward say about 5 feet from the defender and land on my non-pivot foot, then shoot or pass the ball.

[Danvrapp]

Originally posted by Truemagic2000
So, basicly what your saying is that once a player loses their dribble, and say that there pivot foot is the left foot, he's able to jump or maybe even take a really big leap to the left or to the right of the defender and shoot off the other foot(non-pivot foot).
Here's what i mean. I lose my dribble, so im able to jump or leap backward say about 5 feet from the defender and land on my non-pivot foot, then shoot or pass the ball.

Congratulations, grasshopper. You've earned your 'A' today

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Danvrapp

Congratulations, grasshopper. You've earned your 'A' today

And there's no grade inflation on this board!!

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Truemagic2000
So, basicly what your saying is that once a player loses their dribble, and say that there pivot foot is the left foot, he's able to jump or maybe even take a really big leap to the left or to the right of the defender and shoot off the other foot(non-pivot foot).
Here's what i mean. I lose my dribble, so im able to jump or leap backward say about 5 feet from the defender and land on my non-pivot foot, then shoot or pass the ball.

Not correct. When a player jumps (both feet off the floor) after establishing a pivot foot it is traveling when either foot returns to the floor.

However, you may "step" to the non-pivot foot. You may remain on that foot as long as you like an pass or shoot. You can move the non-pivot foot as much as you like if the pivot foot remains in place.

The distinction is between what is a step and what is a jump.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
The distinction is between what is a step and what is a jump.

Camron, that seems like a fine hair to split. I think the better distinction is whether the player has come to a stop or not. 4-43-2 talks about what is legal when a player catches the ball while moving or dribbling. 4-43-3 talks about what is legal when a player catches the ball and then comes to a stop.

If a player is moving when he catches the ball, then he may establish a pivot foot, jump off it and land on the other foot (as in my lay-up example). But if the player has stopped, then Article 3(b) states that if he jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try.

Does that make sense? (And with apologies to Mark, I'm still completely ignoring the jump stop! )

Chuck

[Truemagic2000]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Not correct. When a player jumps (both feet off the floor) after establishing a pivot foot it is traveling when either foot returns to the floor.

However, you may "step" to the non-pivot foot. You may remain on that foot as long as you like an pass or shoot. You can move the non-pivot foot as much as you like if the pivot foot remains in place.

The distinction is between what is a step and what is a jump.

I think Camron Rust see's it the way i do.
Anyways, I'm NOT asking about when a player catches the ball and is still in motion and has two step left. I'm asking about when a player comes to a complete stop at has no dribbles left.

So which is the correct way?

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Camron, that seems like a fine hair to split. I think the better distinction is whether the player has come to a stop or not. 4-43-2 talks about what is legal when a player catches the ball while moving or dribbling. 4-43-3 talks about what is legal when a player catches the ball and then comes to a stop.

If a player is moving when he catches the ball, then he may establish a pivot foot, jump off it and land on the other foot (as in my lay-up example). But if the player has stopped, then Article 3(b) states that if he jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try.

The pivot foot is not established until the second foot touches. To jump and land on either foot (or feet) after the pivot is established is always traveling. On the layup, the first foot down only becomes the pivot when the 2nd foot touches, otherwise you couldn't have a legal jump stop.

A player who catches the ball with one foot on the floor or who catches the ball with no feet on the floor but lands on one can only jump and land on both feet simultaneously (or step to the 2nd foot). If they jump and land on one, it is a travel. They may step to the 2nd foot. They can never "jump" to the 2nd foot.

The only jumping that is legal is the jump stop from one foot to two feet. Any other jump is traveling.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Jun 12th, 2002 at 01:23 PM]

[ChuckElias]

Camron, I see exactly what you're explaining in the rule book. I never thought about it this closely, tho. It seems to me, if we interpret it the way you've explained it, then 99% of the layups I see are travels. Kid catches the ball in the air, lands on the right foot, jumps off that foot, lands on the other foot, then jumps to shoot the layup. That motion is not what I would call a "step". He's got both feet off the ground during that "step". That seems to me to be more of a jump. That's why I said it was a fine hair to split. A step seems to me to be what you do when you're holding the ball and pivoting.

Chuck

[rpirtle]

Once the pivot foot has been established, the pivot foot can be raised. After the pivot foot is raised the player can do 3 things: 1. Shoot; 2. Pass; or, 3. Call time-out.

[BktBallRef]

Chuck, actually if we use your "non-step" interp, we have traveling. Cameron is correct. Once a player jumps, he may not return to the floor whether he lands on the pivot or the not-pivot. A player driving to the basket, stepping with his non-pivot foot is not jumping, until he jumps off the non-pivot. If this step was considered jumping, then all lay-ups would be traveling, as you stated. But the step is not the same as jumping.

Truemagic, Cameron is NOT agreeing with you. You stated "he's able to jump." That's not true. He cannot jump and return to the floor. Also, whether the dribble has been used or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.

1- A player who is holding the ball establishes his pivot foot.
2- He can step with the non-pivot foot and then lift his pivot. He must now shoot, pass, or request TO.
3- He cannot dribble and he cannot return the pivot to the floor.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by rpirtle
Once the pivot foot has been established, the pivot foot can be raised. After the pivot foot is raised the player can do 3 things: 1. Shoot; 2. Pass; or, 3. Call time-out.

Nope. He can't call timeout. Only an official can call timeout. A player or head howler monkey can only request timeout.

Once again, I'm not stating this just to be nit-picky (OK, maybe I am) but to reinforce the concept that just because a coach or player yells "TIMEOUT", one does not exist and the players should keep on playing. Kind of like the horn going off in the middle of play.