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-   -   'T' not warranted??? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51372-t-not-warranted.html)

Adam Wed Feb 04, 2009 09:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 575593)
And when they do the line-ups and the person is not in the book, do you keep the T or erase it?
Normally, the book is done ahead of time. If this kid isn't a player, coach will tell me when I let him know (right after I tell the kid). If he saves that little nugget for when I check the book, too late, and I'll still charge him with the indirect; might just direct the scorer to add said player. Not sure about that, though.

Nevadaref Wed Feb 04, 2009 08:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 575337)
Being in the book has nothing to do with anything. The Rule 10 technical reads "player." Since a "player" is one of only 5 at a given time, the rule's intent is actually "team member," which includes everyone in uniform who is eligible to be a player. The rule in Rule 10 probably should read "Player or team member" to cover times when more than 5 can be on the court -- such as pregame and warm ups.
It does. ;)

Rule 10, Section 3
A player shall not:
. . .
ART. 3 . . . Grasp either basket during the time of the officials’ jurisdiction,
dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball prior to or during the game
or during any intermission until jurisdiction of the officials has ended. This item
applies to all team members.
EXCEPTION: A player may grasp the basket to prevent injury.
PENALTY: (Art. 3) For dunking or grasping during pregame or intermission, the
foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach.

Nevadaref Wed Feb 04, 2009 08:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 575289)
If one of his players dunks prior to when the book is filled out, for example, and the coach wants to avoid the T, he can leave said player out of the lineup.

He can then have him added to the book later, but this time it's a team T only; nothing to the player or coach. Coach can also time this so that it only costs him two free throws.
There is a simple way to put a stop to that.

Charge both the team T when the name is entered later AND a direct technical foul to the Head Coach for unsporting behavior.

Ref Ump Welsch Thu Feb 05, 2009 01:38pm
I asked the state coordinator of officials in Nebraska (NSAA) regarding the situation in the OP and this was his response:

Probably should have skipped the technical foul. The player that dunked the ball was not part of the game being contested. He and his teammates shouldn't have been on the floor.

According to the NSAA basketball manual, teams are not permitted to shoot/warm-up at the intermission of the preceding game. In this case the athletic administrator should have been informed and the violation should have been reported to the NSAA.

Moral of story: Check with your state on how to handle this, they may already have a policy in place.

M&M Guy Thu Feb 05, 2009 03:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 575901)
There is a simple way to put a stop to that.

Charge both the team T when the name is entered later AND a direct technical foul to the Head Coach for unsporting behavior.
Are you advocating two different penalties for one action?

Adam Thu Feb 05, 2009 05:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 576148)
Are you advocating two different penalties for one action?
It's more of a delayed penalty for the earlier pregame dunk.

M&M Guy Thu Feb 05, 2009 05:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 576179)
It's more of a delayed penalty for the earlier pregame dunk.
I understand the reasoning, I'm not sure about penalizing an act that already carries it's own penalty with something on top of it. So, is he saying there would be 4 FT's for this administrative T?

fullor30 Thu Feb 05, 2009 05:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by that's a walk (Post 574945)
I'll make this short. I was not a witness to this but a good friend was part of the 3 man crew and he shared with me.

Freshman game, 1st game of a triple header, and the 'Home' boys go to the lockerroom for a last minute chat before the opening tip. After the boys left a few 'Home' JV boys go out onto the floor and do a little shooting. One guy decides to dunk the ball. Here is where it gets interesting. One official puts air to his whistle and reports a 'T' will be issued to the home team. Now when the freshman come back out the coach is informed that he has received a 'T' and that he has lost his box. The game begins with 2 freethrows and the ball is awarded to the Visitors. Home team gets the arrow. Coach is irate all game and then asks the referee who issued the 'T' if the number in the book is correct because he is going to report him to the MHSAA. Has this ever occurred before? I was looking thru the books and came up empty. I have a game with this official next week. I want to make sure we are on the same page.

3 man crew for freshman games?

Back In The Saddle Fri Feb 06, 2009 05:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 576148)
Are you advocating two different penalties for one action?
I think he's advocating two T's for two separate acts. One is obviously the administrative T for adding the player to the book. The second is direct to the head coach for his deceitful actions in trying to game the system and avoid the T for the dunk.

Rich Fri Feb 06, 2009 08:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 575064)
I dont understand why anyone cares about this? I usually dont go looking for more crap to add more stink to anything I am involved with.
Did you work all the games involving the home team I had last week? You know, the ones where the official didn't care what color prewrap the girls were wearing?

Rich Fri Feb 06, 2009 08:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 575289)
If one of his players dunks prior to when the book is filled out, for example, and the coach wants to avoid the T, he can leave said player out of the lineup.

He can then have him added to the book later, but this time it's a team T only; nothing to the player or coach. Coach can also time this so that it only costs him two free throws.
Of course the coach will then get a direct technical foul for trying to avoid the first technical. :D

Raymond Fri Feb 06, 2009 09:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 575064)
I dont understand why anyone cares about this? I usually dont go looking for more crap to add more stink to anything I am involved with.

Is that the answer you give if the supervisor asks why there was dunking going on in warm-ups? You have to address it in some manner, you can't just ignore it.

that's a walk Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:27am
fullor30
 
When a triple header is scheduled, 1- three man crew will work both the freshmen and the JV contests..Then another 3-man crew is there for the V game..

that's a walk Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:35am
fullor30
 
When a triple header is scheduled, 1- three man crew will work both the freshmen and the JV contests..Then another 3-man crew is there for the V game..

deecee Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 576282)
Is that the answer you give if the supervisor asks why there was dunking going on in warm-ups? You have to address it in some manner, you can't just ignore it.
Yes, in my game by players in my game. If its no one invovled with my game, why in the heck am I going to penalize either team. A visitor might as well wear the home school shirt and come out and dunk and earn a T for the OTHER team. This T is completly absurd, and I guarantee this will hamper your advancement. Unless your superiors have explicitly told you to call this, and I dont see how they could or would, but if they did that is the only time to make such a call.


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