Last night I set a pick & call a "T"
 

I have been having a great season to date. This is my 9th year and I feel like I am on top of my game.

Tonight I have a boys JV game. ( I have done about 30 varsity games and 4 JV games ) 2 man mechanics are different from 3 man and I mess those up on time outs and between quarters, but over all, had a good night.

In the 3rd quarter I had to "T" up a player. I am lead and he is above the Free Throw line facing away from me. I am watching low post play and I hear him yell " Get the "F Bomb" off of me!" BANG "T" This is my 2nd "T" of the year. Last year I was at about 15 by this time in the season.

Earlier the same player gave the crowd the finger ( both officials missed it but the crowd told us about it )

Later in the 3rd quarter, I am working the trail position while they are working the weave and I was near mid court when the ball was stolen and the defensive player ran into me and it was a perfect pick for the steal.

Not much I could do, I needed to move with them working the weave side to side.

2/3's done, 30 days left. the seasons are just too short.

Good call on the T. Too bad you missed the crowd salute; the players then would have been sittin' after the T that you did call.

On the 1 finger salute to the fans, especially at this level, would anyone eject the player?

I've only had it once, and it was a player who'd already been DQ'd for fighting.

Depends if I thought the coach would handel it so I didn't have to.

I know most of the coaches and their styles. Most would only allow the wave 1 time.

Before you jump on me- remember this is a judgment call!

What's there to jump on -- your bad judgement(if its to not discipline at all -- if its for flagrant or not then I agree with you)? A player flipping the bird to the stands, at the least, deserves a technical whether or not the coach IS going to handle anything.

If a coach is going to discipline his players has no bearing on the job you have to do. And any coach worth his weight in Ford or GM stock will not give you any grief over this T.

I personally wouldnt kick a player out, and it happend in a GV game of mine last year, I t'd her up and told the coach. He promptly sat her the rest of the game. But I was completly shocked that it happened, and literally 2 feet away from me and during live ball action. It took me about 3 seconds just to register it because it was so close.

Sounded to me that the question was flagrant or non-flagrant. Doubtful I'd call this flagrant, but I'd have to see it before deciding.

Here, so now you know what we are talking about.:D:p:D

http://gevil.org/wp-content/uploads/...pping-bird.jpg

This is a poor case of Sportmanship........

Right, but the judgment is whether it's flagrant or not, IMO.

Considering most of us seem to not have seen this could it not fall into the area of extreme. Also it does seem vulgar.

I realize it's a HTBT but HS gym on a friday night, kid drops a bird that the whole gym sees....I'm thinking flagrant....unless I can be convinced otherwise. :cool:

look at it this way
 

if the player fliped you the single finger salute - would you consider that Flagrant? I would!

Then why is there a big question about flipping off the crowd?

if a player shoves an opponent during a dead ball, or he shoves you the official?

2 different outcomes. If there was no escalation after the shove of the player, just an unsporting T. For shoving me the good ol heave ho.

same action different consequence.

Speaking of Ts...I had a situation the other night that made me think.

I was across the court and wasn't sure if it came from fans behind V bench or a player (on the bench) so I felt that I couldn't do anything about it. Someone said the F-word in relation to a no call in my P's primary. If I hear it and know it's from the bench but don't know who said it can I just call a "generic" bench T? (No books with me at work.) If not, how do you handle that situation? :confused:

You absolutely could, but I would ask how loud it was? If you were the only one that heard it, maybe go to the coach and say, "I heard F*&k from your bench. I'm not sure which player it was, but could you please address this so I don't have to?" Since you don't have definite knowledge of what player said it, this may be a better route to take.

Depends on whether the player is flipping off someone in the crowd who has been on me all night! :)

Maybe not...

If the player or bench personnel just says the F word by itself it doesnt mean much to me. It all depends what else is said with it and how loud. I dont care if I am the only one who hears something if it is towards my partner and disrespectful, the bench is getting a T. If its just F and I hear it Im not going to say anything to the coach. Sometimes I hear things that I might not like but might be very accepted in that area or culture. As an official I do think I have to put my personal preferences aside to be truly impartial. Do I like some of the music player, NO, do I like it when a school does a pregame prayer, NO. Do i care, NO. I just dont prefer these but they dont have much to do with the game. Cursing is the same, I dont like to hear it on the court, but I do sometimes, and half the time it doesnt need any addressing.

Absolutely terrible advice imo.

If a player told you to <i>"f**k off"</i>, would you let that go also if you were the only one to hear it?

If you hear it, call it! Period!

And don't make up excuses as to why you shouldn't call it either. That's very telling.

God is in His Heaven, and all is right with the world.

He must think he's the Messiah.

what about this situation. let's say you have a HS V game. the fans are getting on the opposing team, maybe nothing so egregious that it's immediately considered unacceptable to all involved (i know AD's try to keep crowd control, and it's subject to what each person thinks is an acceptable cheer, but let's say they're doing some namecalling, maybe swear word thrown in there here and there. they're getting on the players, doing what student sections do. eventually one of the opposing players gets tired of it, because they have been giving him crap, nothing you would automatically think to eject a specator for, but its been coming consistantly a and throws a quick finger to the student section. do you T the player for the finger? do you T the crowd for unsportsmanship for baiting the player into giving the T? do you T both teams and warn that any players/spectators doing anything suspect from this point on will be immediately ejected?

Yes, I T the player giving the finger. I can't control the fans, but whatever happens on the court I have to control.

That's like saying you don't eject the player who fights back after getting hit. Self defense or no, you gotta go.

I see what you're saying.

i've reasoned that If I or my partner doesn't feel the crowd has been malicious, then its on the player to suck it up and not loose his cool, even if he feels differently about the crowd.
That said, even if i do think the crowd hasn't crossed the line, even if they are on him, if a finger-like incident takes place, should i approach the AD/crowd control/coaches and give a warning that we'll assess a bench/crowd technical if they continue on, even if i don't think they've been unreasonable? If i don't, isn't that the same as not being on notice to make sure that the kid who pushed first (in your example) doesn't do it again to try and bait another foul from a kid pushing back? because even i don't think the crowd is pushing, they clearly are because they've incited a reaction. is on me to control this or do i assess the finger waver as having an unreasonable response and do nothing about the crowd?