Tech and possession at quarter break?

[GrogInOhio]

I'm a first year official and have been visiting a lot of JV games to watch 2 man crews (I DESPERATELY want to get better, and there is MUCH room for me to improve). Some of them are SUPERB and others... well... not so much. In a game with the latter I think I witnessed a mistake that has been severely bugging me, so I thought I'd post the question.

Team A gets the tip to begin the 1st quarter. The coach for Team B is called for a technical between the 1st and 2nd quarters. Team A shoots to begin the 2nd quarter but after the shots the officials give the ball to Team B. I'm thinking that the possession arrow should remain with Team B, but Team A should have been awarded the ball pursuant to the technical.

Thoughts?

Grog

[slow whistle]

I'm thinking keep thinking how you're thinking.

[jevaque]

you are correct the AP arrow should stay the same and team A should get the ball at the beginning of the quarter.

Originally Posted by slow whistle

I'm thinking keep thinking how you're thinking.

OW OW OW OW, my head hurts! But, you're right!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jevaque

you are correct the AP arrow should stay the same and team A should get the ball at the beginning of the quarter.

The quarter begins when the ball becomes live for the first of the technical foul FTs. Team A gets a throw-in at the division line opposite the table following that. Although there is still 8:00 on the clock, that throw-in is NOT the beginning of the quarter. How much time is on the clock is not the determining factor for when a quarter begins or ends.

[walter]

Here's something I witnessed the other night and our organization has had quite a bit of discussion about. End of 3rd quarter. a1 drives to basket, releases ball, gets fouled by B1 while still in the air, horn sounds, ball goes in. Official makes the call and counts the basket. Before A1 shoots his free throw (with no one lined up), B1 decides to tell the official what he thought about the call. Whack! A1 shoots his free throw and then A2 shoots both free throws for the "T". Arrow belongs to Team B. Here is where the discussion started. There was a group of officials who believed that Team A was entitled to the ball to start the 4th due to the technical. The other camp, which I agree with, felt that the T was part of the third quarter and when that quarter's activity ended with the ball becoming dead after the second free throw for the T, so did Team A's opportunity to get the ball due to the T. Therefore, the 4th quarter starts with Team B getting the throw in since no part of a penalty can carry over. The camp I was in relied on 5-6-2(3). I felt I'd bring it here to see where the "experts" could weigh in.

[Adam]

You are right. Penalties do not carry over from one quarter.
The quarter does not end until all related activities are complete, this includes A1's free throw

[Spence]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You are right. Penalties do not carry over from one quarter.
The quarter does not end until all related activities are complete, this includes A1's free throw

Has the NFHS defined "related activity?"

5-6-4 deals specifically with a T after a quarter has ended. 5-6-3 only uses the term "related activity."

What tells me that the T FTs should be shot before the next quarter starts?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Spence

Has the NFHS defined "related activity?"

5-6-4 deals specifically with a T after a quarter has ended. 5-6-3 only uses the term "related activity."

What tells me that the T FTs should be shot before the next quarter starts?

The part that says no penalties shall be carried over to the next quarter. The same thing that says if B1 commits a common foul (before the bonus) as the quarter expires, A does not get a throwin for the foul to start the next quarter.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You are right. Penalties do not carry over from one quarter.
The quarter does not end until all related activities are complete, this includes A1's free throw

Ok, so in the situation stated by Walter, A1's free throw ends the 3rd quarter. The 4th quarter would start with Team A's free throws for the technical and Team A inbounding the ball even though Team B has the arrow. Is that correct?

[JS 20]

The NFHS "Rules by Topic" book states: "If a technical foul occurs after the ball has become dead to end a quarter, the next quarter is started by administering the free throws."

Also, in Walter's scenario, the head coach would be issued an indirect T as all players are bench personnell during intermissions.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Ok, so in the situation stated by Walter, A1's free throw ends the 3rd quarter. The 4th quarter would start with Team A's free throws for the technical and Team A inbounding the ball even though Team B has the arrow. Is that correct?

No, because the technical foul was called before the free throws had been attempted; that means the technical foul was called in the third quarter and it's penalties cannot be carried over to the next.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JS 20

The NFHS "Rules by Topic" book states: "If a technical foul occurs after the ball has become dead to end a quarter, the next quarter is started by administering the free throws."

Also, in Walter's scenario, the head coach would be issued an indirect T as all players are bench personnell during intermissions.

This is incorrect. The ball will not become dead to end the third quarter (in walter's scenario) until the final free throw is completed.

[bob jenkins]

[QUOTE=Rufus;573594]Ok, so in the situation stated by Walter, A1's free throw ends the 3rd quarter. The 4th quarter would start with Team A's free throws for the technical and Team A

No (unless I'm misreading the play).

The play was: Foul, Horn, T, FTs for the foul.

The quarter doesn't end until the FTs are shot. So, the T was during the third quarter. The FTs for the T will be shot as part of the third quarter and there will be no throw-in as part of the T.

The fourht quarter will start "as usual" -- with an AP throw-in determined by the arrow.

[JS 20]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This is incorrect. The ball will not become dead to end the third quarter (in walter's scenario) until the final free throw is completed.

You're right, my bad on that.