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-   -   Partner calls 48 fouls - I counted them (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51234-partner-calls-48-fouls-i-counted-them.html)

fullor30 Tue Jan 27, 2009 05:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 572917)
Filled in for a 5th grade girls game last night. I had not worked with this partner in about 4 or 5 years. She has a tendency to call a lot of ticky tack fouls, but last night took the cake. I tossed to start the game, A1 hit the ball back to A2. B2 put her hands up to guard and TWEET! During the game, she constantly called shooting fouls when the defender had all ball and there was no body contact. She called at least 15 offensive fouls for the ball handler "pushing away the arm" of the defender or something similar. Not only did she call that many fouls, she had to give an explanation of almost every one: "White, 23, for putting her hands on the hip of the dribbler and not letting her change direction" and so on.

The home team won 36-26 and I don't even want to know how many free throws were attempted. We were in double bonus both teams both halves. Six girls fouled out, three on each team, so I guess it "evened out". Oh yeah, she called a ton of violations, too, including travel on virtually every jump stop.

It got to the point where I heard spectators saying things like, "It only took her 10 seconds to call one this time. I win the pool".

Both coaches approached me a few times during breaks to see if there was anything I could do. Now you may be wondering why I didn't discuss these things with her during the game. Let's just say she is not very responsive to constructive criticism.

BTW - I called seven fouls in the whole game and I don't think I missed any in my area. The game took almost 2 hours. I called the assignor and told him that if he ever thinks about scheduling me with her again, I'd rather be shot.
I worked with her male counterpart a fe wmonths ago after I told him to keep the game moving as I was booked a short time after our games. Double bonus 1st quarter.......

CoachCER Tue Jan 27, 2009 05:07pm
I once coached a middle school team in a conference of private schools. The level of play was better than rec, but still below that of the local public schools.
I had one game that season where I had the misfortune of watching both teams attempt a total of 88 foul shots (50 by my team). I believe I had 4 (maybe 5) players foul out, and I know the other team was somewhere in that range. They also had their head coach ejected fairly early in the 3rd quarter. It was by far the longest game I ever coached.

tballump Tue Jan 27, 2009 09:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachCER (Post 573023)
I once coached a middle school team in a conference of private schools. The level of play was better than rec, but still below that of the local public schools.
I had one game that season where I had the misfortune of watching both teams attempt a total of 88 foul shots (50 by my team). I believe I had 4 (maybe 5) players foul out, and I know the other team was somewhere in that range. They also had their head coach ejected fairly early in the 3rd quarter. It was by far the longest game I ever coached.
Instead of playing a game, why didn't the official's just split up and have both teams line up at the free throw line, at their own end of the court, and have each player shoot 10 free throws? They could count how many were made, and the team that hit the most would be declared the winner. There was no use in "playing" the game. There was no "game". It was just a free throw shooting contest.

CoachCER Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:23am
That crossed my mind midway through the 3rd quarter. :)

It was a strange night. I had few complaints about the officiating in any game before or after that one, and I will say the two that night were consistent. They did seem to throw the concept of advantage/disadvantage out before the game started.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 572917)
Filled in for a 5th grade girls game last night. I had not worked with this partner in about 4 or 5 years. She has a tendency to call a lot of ticky tack fouls, but last night took the cake. I tossed to start the game, A1 hit the ball back to A2. B2 put her hands up to guard and TWEET! During the game, she constantly called shooting fouls when the defender had all ball and there was no body contact. She called at least 15 offensive fouls for the ball handler "pushing away the arm" of the defender or something similar. Not only did she call that many fouls, she had to give an explanation of almost every one: "White, 23, for putting her hands on the hip of the dribbler and not letting her change direction" and so on.

The home team won 36-26 and I don't even want to know how many free throws were attempted. We were in double bonus both teams both halves. Six girls fouled out, three on each team, so I guess it "evened out". Oh yeah, she called a ton of violations, too, including travel on virtually every jump stop.

It got to the point where I heard spectators saying things like, "It only took her 10 seconds to call one this time. I win the pool".

Both coaches approached me a few times during breaks to see if there was anything I could do. Now you may be wondering why I didn't discuss these things with her during the game. Let's just say she is not very responsive to constructive criticism.

BTW - I called seven fouls in the whole game and I don't think I missed any in my area. The game took almost 2 hours. I called the assignor and told him that if he ever thinks about scheduling me with her again, I'd rather be shot.

Mark:

I am so hurt that you outed me.

Marcia Tomasina DeNucci

JRutledge Wed Jan 28, 2009 01:49am
Now I do not feel so bad.
 
I thought my game on Friday I called too many in a quarter and a half. I called 9 out of 10 fouls all on one team during a quarter and a half period of time. And I probably called 4 on one player. I was not happy about that.

Peace

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Jan 28, 2009 01:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 573146)
I thought my game on Friday I called too many in a quarter and a half. I called 9 out of 10 fouls all on one team during a quarter and a half period of time. And I probably called 4 on one player. I was not happy about that.

Peace

Rut:

Don't beat yourself up over it. It happens. You and I have been officiating long enough to know that these things even out over the course of a season and a career. I remember one time in a three-person game I blow my whistle twice in the first half, both out-of-bounds calls. It just happens that way.

MTD, Sr.

JRutledge Wed Jan 28, 2009 02:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 573148)
Rut:

Don't beat yourself up over it. It happens. You and I have been officiating long enough to know that these things even out over the course of a season and a career. I remember one time in a three-person game I blow my whistle twice in the first half, both out-of-bounds calls. It just happens that way.

MTD, Sr.
You are right, the next afternoon, I did not call a foul for the first quarter and a couple of minutes. It was lovely. :D

Peace

fullor30 Wed Jan 28, 2009 07:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 573148)
Rut:

Don't beat yourself up over it. It happens. You and I have been officiating long enough to know that these things even out over the course of a season and a career. I remember one time in a three-person game I blow my whistle twice in the first half, both out-of-bounds calls. It just happens that way.

MTD, Sr.


Wow.........good timing, my partners joked that they were doing a two man game last night. I just didn't have much in my area and I didn't go poaching.

I felt a little funny, but it happens.

grunewar Wed Jan 28, 2009 07:55am
This is an interesting discussion for me for this reason - On several occasions evaluators have said to me or others - "You/your partner are calling the entire game" or "Do you/your partner realize you made the last six calls or called the last four fouls?" "I need you to go get one." or "I need you to get a call."

While I understand the points made - hey, if it ain't happening in your area tonight, it ain't happening. Any thoughts on the above school of thought of not wanting/giving the perception that one official is maybe stronger and calling the entire game?

JugglingReferee Wed Jan 28, 2009 08:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 573166)
This is an interesting discussion for me for this reason - On several occasions evaluators have said to me or others - "You/your partner are calling the entire game" or "Do you/your partner realize you made the last six calls or called the last four fouls?" "I need you to go get one." or "I need you to get a call."

While I understand the points made - hey, if it ain't happening in your area tonight, it ain't happening. Any thoughts on the above school of thought of not wanting/giving the perception that one official is maybe stronger and calling the entire game?
During my first camp, I asked a question and a college official told me possibly the worst piece of advice that I ever heard. I have since come to learn that he's a relic on the board of college officials. If you're L and there's nobody in your primary, you aren't expected to call anything - "don't look outside your area" was a direct quote. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

dsqrddgd909 Wed Jan 28, 2009 08:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 573021)
I worked with her male counterpart a fe wmonths ago after I told him to keep the game moving as I was booked a short time after our games. Double bonus 1st quarter.......
DISCLAIMER: I'm so new that I haven't become registered yet, but I've played and coached a lot of years.

My thought at seeing this comment was why should anyone care where/when you're booked for the next game? Aren't we supposed to call what we see - without being influenced by anything else? :confused:

williebfree Wed Jan 28, 2009 08:31am
Welcome aboard!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 573170)
DISCLAIMER: I'm so new that I haven't become registered yet, but I've played and coached a lot of years.

My thought at seeing this comment was why should anyone care where/when you're booked for the next game? Aren't we supposed to call what we see - without being influenced by anything else? :confused:
dsqrddgd909:

Generally speaking your observation is correct. However; as you advance in your understanding of officiating you will begin to develop personal preferences, officiating philosophies and so on....

My interpretation of comments that appear persnickety are most often just that.... officials airing their displeasure about significant difference in officiating philosophies or more frustratingly working with someone who extremely lacks rules knowledge, mechanics, and game management skills.


Now if you don't mind, I will go back to my reclusive corner and dig into my rule book. :)

dsqrddgd909 Wed Jan 28, 2009 08:36am
Thanks for the insight. I have to remind myself that online forums do not afford the luxury of hearing a poster's tone, background or experiences. I will try to remember not to read too much into any particular post.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Jan 28, 2009 08:38am
Remember the first three rules of basketball officiating: Stay true to your line; officiate your primary area; and trust your partner.

Having said, when an official has off-ball coverage in his primary area there will be times when he will have to expand primary area to cover off-ball action (this concept is very important in two-man games but not as important in three-man games), but it should not be at the expense of missing something right in front of him.

My advice, is to let the game come to you. Don't go looking for boogers as we say in baseball. I have had two-man games where I had 10 of the first 12 fouls; it seemed like I was doing everything and my partner did not exist. It happens, and then I have had games where it seemed like nothing was ever going to happen in my area.

MTD, Sr.


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