Delay of Game???
 

A JV official asked me if he handled this situation correctly. Blue team is ahead by 3 points. Red team just makes a lay up and there is about 8 seconds left in the game. Blue 32 slaps the ball away from everybody after the gaol has was made into the corner of the gym. The clock continues to run. It gets down 5 seconds and he calls a delay of game violation against the Blue team, the team since the rule does not state who interferes after the made basket.

I told him I would have let the count started at 8 seconds. Call the 5 second violation and give the ball back to Red. So long as they got the ball away within the 5 second count, then no violation.

Any thoughts???

I agree with what you told him.

What about a T? Just curious if NF tradition allows for it. I'm sure that player would never do the same thing.

In FIBA the clock stops after every made basket in the last two minutes (fourth quarter or overtimes), so this behavior would be (almost) irrelevant.

Ciao

That's what I was thinking, why should the team that is up by 1 be allowed to slap the ball into the corner with 8 seconds left?
Does sound unsporting... no faith in the press break or FTers :rolleyes:

T -- HERE no way -- start the 5 count.

Why a T? Think about the INTENT of the delay rule. If the defense knocks the ball away, they are delaying the offense from inbounding promptly. If the offense knocks it away, they are only hurting their own team. Just start the count.

So the team that's down by 1 (defense) can't knock it away to attempt to stop the clock but the wininng throw-in team can do so without penalty?

So would you start your count as soon as the ball is slapped away or when they go gather it & the time is just about out?

I don't see how it "hurts" them, they are trying to get the 1 point win without having to inbound the ball... it's only hurting the losing team IMO.

It has nothing to do with who is ahead or behind. It has to do with who is on offense or defense. The offense has 5 seconds to inbound once the ball is at their disposal. If they want to slap it away or hold it, I don't care either way. It changes nothing. I'm starting my count as soon as it's available to them. Whether they stand there and hold it or slap it to the corner, the violation will occur in 5 seconds.

Okay I can dig that! As long as we start the count on the slap away, then the defense isn't put at a disadvantage. The offense is entitled to those 5 seconds (tweet) violation, defenses ball with 3 on the clock under their goal. Now I feel like we provided both teams with a fair crack at it.

Thanks!

Personally, I don't mind the way the JV guy dealt with it. I wouldn't have gone the DOG route, because this is a defensive violation by rule, not offensive.

You have the option of a T (preventing the ball from being made live) by rule, but I'd probably avoid that as well.

Stop the clock and administer the throwin.

After the 5 second violation or on the slap?

That's the nuclear option. The player would have to throw the ball into the stands or way down the court to earn this, I think.

Disagree. When he slapped the ball, it showed the ball was at his disposal, and therefore the ball became live at that point. He did not prevent it from becoming live, so there are no grounds for a T. You start your 5 count then stop the clock at the count of five and give the ball to the other team to inbound.

The slap.

Agreed.

It's our judgment when the ball is at the disposal of the thrower. He slaps it into the corner, I'm not calling the T; I'll probably just start counting (but I might stop the clock and administer the endline throwin). He bats it into the upper row of bleachers at half court, I might go with the T. The option is there.

Under what rule?

While I agree with your distinction of when you would tech him and when you wouldn't, I think Mark's point is valid as well...if in the first example you are saying that upon the slapping the ball is at the throwers disposal (which I agree with) and you are starting the count, how can the same action (slap) be considered delaying making the ball live just b/c the slap sends the ball into the stands? In reality you are teching him for unsporting conduct in your second example aren't you?

The same rule that allows you to stop the clock and administer when it accidentally gets kicked away during normal action.

If he slaps the ball while still in bounds, you wouldn't have started your count yet anyway (at least not quite). The ball isn't live yet.

How about interpreting that he tried to slap it to a teammate but just did a poor job and then blow the whistle for a throw in violation?;) After all, its a judgement call.

So whenever there's a slapped ball during play you blow the whistle and call a kicked ball?

So, if after a basket, a player from the team who is about to inbound grabs the ball while standing inbounds and just holds it, you don't start your count and you consider the ball not to be at his disposal and therefore not live?

If he can slap it, he can grab it and take it OOB and inbound.

Yeah, Mark, that's a valid way to interpret my position. :rolleyes:

Again, but this time I'll leave out the sarcasm, this is not what I said nor can it be logically inferred from what I said. There is a time lapse from when the player initially grabs the ball inbounds to when the count will start.

If he was out of bounds when he did it, you could go with this. However, I'm pretty sure his intent was clear in the OP, so your options are open.

We do have the case play that declares an illegal throwin even when the "throw" occur from a spot inbounds. I could go with either...an illegal throwin or letting the count go to 5. Depends on the specifics of where and how it all happened.

NFHS rule 5-8-2(c)--"Time-out occurs asnd the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official stops play because of an unusual delay in geting a dead ball live."

Judgement call.

You're welcome.

5-8-2c ;)

Did nt you just give him an advantage by slapping the ball? Once you recoginize the slap time has run off the clock, now you bring it back for a "proper throw-in" and give the team another 5 second count....

He bats the ball into the upper row of the bleachers at halfs court, the ball likely came in, if it didnt he did not directly throw it in... Somehow ithappens without another violation the defensive team will have the ball with three seconds left ...

He lost the advantage he was trying to gain by slapping the ball; and in fact it hurts him if you stop the clock, because not as much time has run off.