Should I have let it go...

[dacodee]

Boys Freshman/JV doubleheader... The freshman game went great! Very competitive and the boys LISTENED! My partner and I discussed in our pregame that we will talk to the players first. If they didn't listen, we were going to take care of business. We only had two fouls the entire first half (one per team). The second half was almost as good as the first, but we had more fouls (6 on white - 5 on black). Both coaches went out of their way to let us know we did a great job.

Now the fun begins... The JV boys take the floor and my partner and I begin to talk before we whistle. Two back to back palming calls appear to get the boys a little frustrated. My partner and I had already discussed that we'll let them get away with it, unless it created an advantage (Bad Decision). Well, after the back to back calls, the players and coaches begin to chirp throughout the entire game about carries. At this point, my partner and I felt as though we needed to start taking care of business and end the talking to the boys. Whistle after whistle... They would not get the hint to knock it off. We were in the bonus very early in both halves.

Fast forward to 32 seconds left in the game... The score is White 41 - Black 42. White brings the ball up court and begins passing for an open shot. I'm the trail, opposite table. Since white is spread out, I keep my distance (practically standing 5 feet from mid court and standing on the sideline) so I can have all players in my primary within view. With about 20 seconds left on the clock, white A1 (who is about five feet in front of me) passes to A2 (who is tableside, behind the arc, free throw line extended). A2 attempts a 3 point shot and is hit on the arm by B2. I blow the whistle and black coach goes balistic. He's repeatedly screaming, "You can't make that call from there. That's your partners call." I report the foul and I notice B2 jumping up and down and he removes his jersey. I refrained from giving a T on the coach for showing his frustration, but B2 removing his jersey did not leave me any choice. A2 makes 1 of 3 foul shots and the player shooting the T's makes 1 of 2, putting white ahead by 1. White inbounds the ball and quickly turns it over. Black is now on a fast break and is fouled in the act of shooting. He misses both free throws and white gets the rebound and time runs out. White wins by 1.

I get to the locker room and the Varsity officials begin to go over what just occurred with us. They asked where the shooter was on the 3 point try. I know for a fact he was foul line extended and since I did not know if my partner had picked him up, I stayed with the shooter. My partner said that he did pick him up and he passed on the foul, thinking that B2 blocked the ball. Well, I agreed to disagree... The Varsity officials were explaining that since the shooter was in fact foul line extended, I should have held my whistle and let my partner take it.

What do you guy's think??? Since it happened so quickly and I was opposite tableside, should I have let it go? Even though I know I saw the entire play?

Note that one of the Varsity officials said, "Right or wrong, it took a lot of balls to make that call. Most officials would not have made it, even if it was right in front of them."

Thanks

[Refsmitty]

My partner and I have an agreement - that you call what you see - not worrying too much about Primary - but focused on getting it right!

[Scrapper1]

Very tough situation. Made tougher by your positioning during the play. You're on the sideline almost at the division line and the shooter is at the 3-point arc on the opposite free throw line extended. You're almost 50 feet away from that play when you call the foul. That would be like the Lead on the end line calling a handcheck at midcourt. Any coach or evaluator would chew out an official who called that from the Lead.

Right call or wrong, it looks awful. Your partner was less than 20 feet from the play. I realize this play is right on the boundary of your primary area of responsibility. In fact, when working 2-whistle, my rule of thumb is that the play should be a full step below the free throw line extended before the Lead picks it up, just to help clear up the "dual" area. But if you're going to call it there, you have to be in a better position to see the play.

Very tough situation. Best thing I can offer is to learn from it. Don't allow yourself to get stuck on the sideline. You have to move as the Trail, especially when the ball swings to the opposite side of the court. Get yourself all the way over to the center jump circle if you have to.

Just out of curiosity, how did the Varsity officials see the play? With 32 seconds left in the game, I'm usually in the locker room waiting for the JV officials to come back. Did they come out of the locker room to watch the end of your game? Or did you simply tell them the situation when you got back to the locker room?

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by dacodee

Fast forward to 32 seconds left in the game... The score is White 41 - Black 42. White brings the ball up court and begins passing for an open shot. I'm the trail, opposite table. Since white is spread out, I keep my distance (practically standing 5 feet from mid court and standing on the sideline) so I can have all players in my primary within view. With about 20 seconds left on the clock, white A1 (who is about five feet in front of me) passes to A2 (who is tableside, behind the arc, free throw line extended). A2 attempts a 3 point shot and is hit on the arm by B2. I blow the whistle and black coach goes balistic. He's repeatedly screaming, "You can't make that call from there. That's your partners call." I report the foul and I notice B2 jumping up and down and he removes his jersey. I refrained from giving a T on the coach for showing his frustration, but B2 removing his jersey did not leave me any choice. A2 makes 1 of 3 foul shots and the player shooting the T's makes 1 of 2, putting white ahead by 1. White inbounds the ball and quickly turns it over. Black is now on a fast break and is fouled in the act of shooting. He misses both free throws and white gets the rebound and time runs out. White wins by 1.

I get to the locker room and the Varsity officials begin to go over what just occurred with us. They asked where the shooter was on the 3 point try. I know for a fact he was foul line extended and since I did not know if my partner had picked him up, I stayed with the shooter. My partner said that he did pick him up and he passed on the foul, thinking that B2 blocked the ball. Well, I agreed to disagree... The Varsity officials were explaining that since the shooter was in fact foul line extended, I should have held my whistle and let my partner take it.

What do you guy's think??? Since it happened so quickly and I was opposite tableside, should I have let it go? Even though I know I saw the entire play?

Note that one of the Varsity officials said, "Right or wrong, it took a lot of balls to make that call. Most officials would not have made it, even if it was right in front of them."

Thanks

In 2-man, you have coverage on the arc to the Free Throw Line extended. It sounds as if this shot was right on the boundary between the two primary areas. These situations can and do happen in 3-man as well. If you thought that the shooter was above the FT line extended, it is your call. If he was below the line, it was your partner's call. If he has one foot above the FT line and and one below, you should have discussed this situation in your pre-game.

Bottom Line: Close enough for either of you to call. You saw it, you called it. You got the call right (you did not imply that the coach was telling you that you got the call WRONG, but rather you should not have MADE the CALL). While having TWO sets of eyes on the shooter is not good, having ZERO sets of eyes on the shooter is even worse. Let's say the shooter got hammered in this case, but you BOTH thought it was in the other's primary. Just how ugly would that situation have been?

Using 2-man at the boys JV level means that you are going to miss some things. In this case, it appears as though you got it right.

P.S. I hope that you were at least moving in the direction of the play as the ball was passed within your primary area.

[Da Official]

A foul is a foul. Since the play was at the free throw line extended both officials in my opinion have a right to make a call. Based on the angle your partner had he passed on the call. Based on the angle you had, you stepped up and made a call. A foul is a foul. The offending team is NEVER happy with a shooting foul called with seconds on the clock, but that's just the way it is.

When I began officiating in college long ago, I made these types of calls with seconds on the clock where most would not....but that's when I knew I had the guts to make tough calls at tough times.

It appears to me from listening to your story you made the right call based on what you saw and its judgment so it could be right or could be wrong but that's the life of a judge. What I would suggest though is to get closer to the action so that you can see the play better and be in position to sell the call better.

Peace

[Chess Ref]

Scrapper makes alot of good points for two man Trail. I work only 2 man and I'm a very active Trail.

Being an active Trail helps alot but there are times where you are gonna be out of position. I can have perfect position to help on rebounding and then a rebound,two quick passes and it looks like I'm taking a smoke break. It comes with 2 man.

In your sitch ,right call or not, its gonna look ugly. It happens .

Whats even more important is that you came here to get feedback, cause you know these people will tell you whats on their mind.

Originally Posted by dacodee

Since white is spread out, I keep my distance (practically standing 5 feet from mid court and standing on the sideline) so I can have all players in my primary within view. With about 20 seconds left on the clock, white A1 (who is about five feet in front of me) passes to A2 (who is tableside, behind the arc, free throw line extended). A2 attempts a 3 point shot and is hit on the arm by B2. I blow the whistle and black coach goes balistic. He's repeatedly screaming, "You can't make that call from there. That's your partners call."

I hate when that happens in a 2 whistle game. You work hard to stay with the shooter & they get fouled but you're too far away to make the call. It happens...

As Scrapper suggested, try to get towards the circle when the ball swings to the opposite sideline. Give your partner a crack at it first. If they dont call it, start closing down prior to your whistle. It gives the perception that you're right on top of the play.

Forget who's right it's all about what's right!

[dacodee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Just out of curiosity, how did the Varsity officials see the play? With 32 seconds left in the game, I'm usually in the locker room waiting for the JV officials to come back. Did they come out of the locker room to watch the end of your game? Or did you simply tell them the situation when you got back to the locker room?

Thanks a lot! The Varsity officials were standing in the doorway that leads to the officials room. I'm sure they heard the crowd and figured something ugly was going down.

With regards to getting a better angle, I definately should not have put myself that far away from any action. I should've worked the arc, but further up toward mid court. It's one of those situations that I know I will not put myself in again.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the feedback.