Two More "Pet Peeve" Travels

[CMHCoachNRef]

The first one: The "Bunny Hop" before the 3-point shot as described in the two posts below. This is virtually never called in varsity games in Central Ohio.

Originally Posted by doubleringer

My pet peeve is the travel on 3 point shots that is waaaayyy to often passed on. I was very glad to see it included in the women's points of emphasis this season. By letting shooters set their feet, we are giving the offense a huge advantage. Sorry a little off topic, but it is my pet peeve travel.

Originally Posted by fiasco

Agreed. This is so prevalent in our area, especially among the girls.

I had a boys JV game a couple of months ago where I called about 5 travels on the same kid for catching the ball on both feet, making a tiny little hop to set himself and then shooting the ball. He was going nuts by the fifth whistle...

The second one: is the "Step into an ill-timed jump stop." I think that this one is called incorrectly just about as often as it is called correctly.

Currently, the rules indicate that a player can jump off of one foot and simultaneously land on both feet (jump stop) -- which from a physics standpoint does not actually happen as one foot will come down at least slightly before the other. However, if a player is dribbling, picks up his dribble, lands on his left foot and then lands with his right foot landing just slightly before the left foot (but, discernably so), the player is guilty of a travel. These two situations are not always consistently called properly, either. The challenge with these two calls is determining the proximity of the two feet landing -- knowing that they are not actually landing simultaneously.

In each of these situations, the feet can end up in the same position (there are two cases of legal plays in the casebook 4.44.2.A a and 4.44.2.A b which describe the feet landing parallel and the feet landing with one in front of the other). In other words, the feet end up taking off and landing the same number of times. The timing of the landing on the jump stop feet determine the travel.

[mbyron]

Here's one I see passed on a lot: a jump step preceded by two steps. For instance: player drives lane, picks up dribble, steps with left foot, steps with right foot, lands on both feet for a jump stop.

[Raymond]

OT--NBA

There was a travel called on the Lakers last night during a last second shot attempt at the end of the game. I want to see the replay again because I'm still not sure he travelled. But I was working out on the eliptical machine while watching SportsCenter so I wasn't fully concentrating on the play.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

However, if a player is dribbling, picks up his dribble, lands on his left foot and then lands with his right foot landing just slightly before the left foot (but, discernably so), .

Huh??? Did his left foot land first, or the right foot???

And mbyron - do you really see that one passed on?? I find that kind of hard to believe.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Huh??? Did his left foot land first, or the right foot???

And mbyron - do you really see that one passed on?? I find that kind of hard to believe.

4.44.3.b A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:
b. If one foot is on the floor (left foot in my example):
2. The player may jump off that foot (left foot) and simultaneously lands on both (right foot and left foot land at the same time). Neither foot can be the pivot in this case.

This play is legal. Left foot is on the floor and he ends up landing on both feet at roughly the same time (simultaneously, to use the NFHS term that is not exactly accurate).

On the other hand, if the player has one foot on the floor (left foot in my example), if the player jumps off that foot, lands with the right foot first followed closedly but discernably after, the left foot landing (hence the term ill-timed jump stop as the feet are not landing simultaneously), this is a travel. Left foot is on the floor and he ends up landing on both feet (feet landing at different times).

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

4.44.3.b A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:
b. If one foot is on the floor (left foot in my example):
2. The player may jump off that foot (left foot) and simultaneously lands on both (right foot and left foot land at the same time). Neither foot can be the pivot in this case.

This play is legal. Left foot is on the floor and he ends up landing on both feet at roughly the same time (simultaneously, to use the NFHS term that is not exactly accurate).

On the other hand, if the player has one foot on the floor (left foot in my example), if the player jumps off that foot, lands with the right foot first followed closedly but discernably after, the left foot landing (hence the term ill-timed jump stop as the feet are not landing simultaneously), this is a travel. Left foot is on the floor and he ends up landing on both feet (feet landing at different times).

Correct. I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from on this...basically, a jump stop is legal. The way I explain it to the rookie classes I teach is the "da-dump" factor. If the "landing" is "dump" (both feet at the same time making one sound) it is legal. If the "landing" is "da-dump" (different times and two distinct noises) it isn't legal. So why is this a "pet peeve"?

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Correct. I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from on this...basically, a jump stop is legal. The way I explain it to the rookie classes I teach is the "da-dump" factor. If the "landing" is "dump" (both feet at the same time making one sound) it is legal. If the "landing" is "da-dump" (different times and two distinct noises) it isn't legal. So why is this a "pet peeve"?

Because your da-dump might be longer than someone else's da-dump. In fact, your da-dump might be shorter than someone else's dump.

Yes, this is another softball for Mark......

The feet end up in the same place and it is a 100% judgment call as to whether the feet are landing "simultaneously" or not. I can accept the fact that a player COULD gain an advantage by stepping around an opponent by landing on one foot and then stepping with the other in front of the first foot to land. But, this play is specifically declared legal in the case book if the feet land "simultaneously." The truth is, the feet are NOT landing at exactly the same time (you may need a high speed camera to prove it, but they are not landing at the same time -- kind of like a tie between the baserunner and the ball in baseball). Therefore, we are literally asking the referee to evaluate the length of the da-dump when making this call.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Because your da-dump might be longer than someone else's da-dump. In fact, your da-dump might be shorter than someone else's dump.

Yes, this is another softball for Mark......

The feet end up in the same place and it is a 100% judgment call as to whether the feet are landing "simultaneously" or not. I can accept the fact that a player COULD gain an advantage by stepping around an opponent by landing on one foot and then stepping with the other in front of the first foot to land. But, this play is specifically declared legal in the case book if the feet land "simultaneously." The truth is, the feet are NOT landing at exactly the same time (you may need a high speed camera to prove it, but they are not landing at the same time -- kind of like a tie between the baserunner and the ball in baseball). Therefore, we are literally asking the referee to evaluate the length of the da-dump when making this call.

And isn't that judgement stuff about 80% of what we do as officials? Don't we judge whether the contact is a foul or not? Don't we judge how long 3 seconds is? I'm really just not getting why this is such a pet peeve, but "not getting it" seems to happen a lot with me.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...but "not getting it" seems to happen a lot with me.

See, you put this one up on a tee, but I'm gonna leave this one alone. For now.

I think CoachNRef is trying to say this is called inconsistantly, both because of a lack of understanding of the rules, as well as a difference in judgement between officials. I can understand it, because the jump stop is still an area I'm weak in. I think I understand the rule, but I don't think I have it down in practice yet.

[zm1283]

Someone that truly understands traveling please watch this video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Z4bH9Qb0g

Watch the jump stop that he does at 1:03. He picks the ball up while dribbling with his left foot on the ground and jumps off that foot. He lands simultaneously on both feet and jumps to shoot. When he landed on both feet, can he then pivot? The way I read the traveling definition it seems like that would be a travel, but I'm not sure.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Someone that truly understands traveling please watch this video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Z4bH9Qb0g

Watch the jump stop that he does at 1:03. He picks the ball up while dribbling with his left foot on the ground and jumps off that foot. He lands simultaneously on both feet and jumps to shoot. When he landed on both feet, can he then pivot? The way I read the traveling definition it seems like that would be a travel, but I'm not sure.

If the player jumps off one foot and lands on both, s/he cannot then pivot.

Note that "gathering the ball in the air and then landing on two feet" is also called a jump stop (by coaches and player and, I think, specifically in the NCAA rules). In this case either foot can be the pivot.

So, if a coach asks you "can my player pivot after a jump stop", you need to ask him to more specifically describe the move.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the player jumps off one foot and lands on both, s/he cannot then pivot.

Note that "gathering the ball in the air and then landing on two feet" is also called a jump stop (by coaches and player and, I think, specifically in the NCAA rules). In this case either foot can be the pivot.

So, if a coach asks you "can my player pivot after a jump stop", you need to ask him to more specifically describe the move.

And the fact that Bob presents here is yet another reason why this call is frequently misunderstood by coaches and officials alike. M&M picked up on my point.

As long as officials continue to be very inconsistent on travels, the coaches will continue to be even more confused than in most other situations.

I always taught my players the "gathering the ball in the air" jump stop -- largely because I wanted my players to be able to pivot using either foot. As time went by, I would try to break my players of the habit of the "legal" step into the jump stop for two reasons: 1. the player had no ability to pivot and 2. many referees call this move a travel even when it is done legally.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

OT--NBA

There was a travel called on the Lakers last night during a last second shot attempt at the end of the game. I want to see the replay again because I'm still not sure he travelled. But I was working out on the eliptical machine while watching SportsCenter so I wasn't fully concentrating on the play.

It wasn't traveling. He took a long slow step but the pivot was not retruned to the floor until after the shot. He missed the call.

Saw Lebron called for traveling last night. He took 5 steps and then wanted to complain about it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

The feet end up in the same place and it is a 100% judgment call as to whether the feet are landing "simultaneously" or not. I can accept the fact that a player COULD gain an advantage by stepping around an opponent by landing on one foot and then stepping with the other in front of the first foot to land. But, this play is specifically declared legal in the case book if the feet land "simultaneously." The truth is, the feet are NOT landing at exactly the same time (you may need a high speed camera to prove it, but they are not landing at the same time -- kind of like a tie between the baserunner and the ball in baseball). Therefore, we are literally asking the referee to evaluate the length of the da-dump when making this call.

You're splitting hairs.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I think CoachNRef is trying to say this is called inconsistantly, both because of a lack of understanding of the rules, as well as a difference in judgement between officials. I can understand it, because the jump stop is still an area I'm weak in. I think I understand the rule, but I don't think I have it down in practice yet.

How about the call is not made because officials would rather miss a possible travel than call a legal jump stop, illegal?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

How about the call is not made because officials would rather miss a possible travel than call a legal jump stop, illegal?

And that is a good point as well. I would rather make the call I'm sure of, then guess at a call and probably be wrong.