Earrings Question

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by zebraman


But I don't see how you can justify clearing the lane and assume that team B would get the rebound after the second shot.

I don't know whether you can justify doing it if the FT shooter has their shirt untucked or pants too low,either-but the rules say that you clear the lane and give the ball to B OOB after the last FT.Thats CB3.4.15Situation that I mentioned above.That is covered under "uniforms" in the rulebook.Jewelry is covered in a different section-"player equipment". Maybe that's why they tell us to handle the two situations differently-one is a fashion item and the other one is a safety issue.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 5th, 2002 at 04:34 PM]

[AK ref SE]

Thanks Brian and DAVRAPP-

I did not have my books in front of me.....And I had talked with a few people in passing and the T question arose!
THanks for the references and the discussion on this

AK ref SE

[Mark Padgett]

Juulie - here's what I would have done.

A1 is about to shoot free throws. A1 is discovered to be wearing earrings. I would make A1 leave to remove the earrings and wait for her. If she refuses to remove them, she is out of the game and her sub can shoot. However, I would not let A1 reenter the game at all, even if she then removes the earrings because that would give an advantage to team A.

If the howler monkey complains, stick a banana in his yap and scratch him behind his ear. He'll calm down.

BTW - if you still need to give up games because of your trip to Metricslovakia, let me know. Thanks.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Juulie - here's what I would have done.

A1 is about to shoot free throws. A1 is discovered to be wearing earrings. I would make A1 leave to remove the earrings and wait for her. If she refuses to remove them, she is out of the game and her sub can shoot. However, I would not let A1 reenter the game at all, even if she then removes the earrings because that would give an advantage to team A.

If the howler monkey complains, stick a banana in his yap and scratch him behind his ear. He'll calm down.

BTW - if you still need to give up games because of your trip to Metricslovakia, let me know. Thanks.

I am using your play Mark P. for my posting. All of the rules codes (NFHS/NCAA, NBA/WNBA, and FIBA) prohibit the wearing of jewelry. The prohibition is a safety concern.

When a player is found wearing jewelry in a game played using NFHS/NCAA rules, the player must be substituted for immediately. In Mark's play the substitute for A1 will shoot the free throws and A1 can return to the game at the first opportunity to substitute after the clock has started, assuming that A1 is no longer wearing jewelry.

It is not a technical foul for playing while wearing jewelry. It is should also be remembered that an official cannot make a player remove his/her jewelry, only prohibit a player from playing while wearing jewelry. But a player can be charged with a technical foul in connection with wearing jewelry. A few years back in the Ohio AAU Girls 18U Championship Tournament (NCAA Women's Rules), I noticed a girl wearing earrings during the pre-game warm-ups; she had her hair pulled back. I reminded her that she could not wear jewelry and play at the same time. Once the game started I did not pay attention to her because she no longer was wearing her hair pulled back. After a time-out in the second half, I was about to hand her the ball for the throw-in when she pulled her hair back and there were bandaids over her ear lobs where the earrings were. I asked her what were under the bandaids and she told me she was covering her earrings with them. I had her replaced immediately under the jewelry rule and charged her with a technical foul for unsportsmanlike conduct for trying to hide the earrings under the bandaids. The technical foul was not for wearing earrings but for the unsportsmanlike act of trying to conceal them after being told before the game that she could not play and wear the earrings at the same time.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Tony,doesn't CB play 3.5.5SitA spell it out?It basically says "No penalty invoved.A player simply cannot participate until the illegal items are removed".Are you getting this confused with CB3.4.15Sit,which is the procedure used for untucked shirts?Just wondering.

No, I'm not getting it confused. I would simply handle it the same way. A player is not allowed to play with an untucked jersey. A player is not allowed to play while wearing jewelry. 3.4.15 allows you to remove the players from the lane, have A1 shoot the FTs, and then five the ball to B.

Considering everything involved, this is the best answer, I believe. A1 is allowed to shoot her FTs but is somewhat penalized by not having an opportunity to rebound if the last shot is missed. But that's certainly better than allowing A to gain advantage by sending in their best FT shooter. I see no difference in the uniform issue verses the jewelry issue in this situation.

Here's 3.4.15 for those who haven't previously read it.

B1 fouls A1. Just before A1 goes to the line for a one-and-one, the official observes: (a) A1 either pulls the shirt out of his/her pants; or (b) that A1's pants are partially below the hips.

Ruling: In both (a) and (b), A1 will be directed to put the shirt in the pants or pull up the pants and must leave the game immediately following his/her last free throw(s). The lane is cleared and it will be B's ball for a throw-in, whether or not the last free throw is successful.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Maybe that's why they tell us to handle the two situations differently-one is a fashion item and the other one is a safety issue.

Hmmm....no one has ever told me that. In both cases, the player is not properly equipped. I don't see a difference. JMHO

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am using your play Mark P. for my posting. All of the rules codes (NFHS/NCAA, NBA/WNBA, and FIBA) prohibit the wearing of jewelry. The prohibition is a safety concern.

When a player is found wearing jewelry in a game played using NFHS/NCAA rules, the player must be substituted for immediately.

Where is this in NF? All I can find is case 3.5.5.A which says a substitute cannot enter with jewelry and rule 3.5.2 which prohibits players from player with jewelry. I see nothing that says the player must be substituted for. It is my understanding that an official may direct the player to remove the jewelry and continue playing, especially if the jewelry is discovered during a dead ball. If there is a specific rule that says you cannot do this, please post it. Thanks.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Hmmm....no one has ever told me that. In both cases, the player is not properly equipped. I don't see a difference. JMHO

Shirts/pants are covered under R3-4,which is labelled "uniforms".Jewelry is covered under R3-5,which is labelled "team members equipment,apparel",and is composed strictly of safety items.That's why I think that they handle them differently.You don't have the same liability with letting a player play with his/her shirt untucked as you would for allowing someone to play while wearing jewelry.The big difference is that the rules allow a player to play while wearing illegal shirts/shorts,at the cost of a technical foul(R10-3-3),while a player wearing jewelry can never buy their way into a game with a T.We simply don't allow them to play.Casebook play 3.5.5SitA,covering jewelry,is pretty specific.It says "No penalty is involved.A6 simply cannot participate until the illegal items are removed". JMO!

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 6th, 2002 at 04:04 AM]

[Brian Watson]

The technical foul was not for wearing earrings but for the unsportsmanlike act of trying to conceal them after being told before the game that she could not play and wear the earrings at the same time.

This is a bit of a stretch isn't it? Did you know for a fact that she purposly covered them with band-aids to avoid taking them out to thumb her nose at the rule, or was just ignorant of the rule? I still run into a lot of coaches (especially in club, JO, AAU, etc.) who think the old band-aid trick is OK. Some of these weekend warriors really don't know that it is illegal. I think this falls under the "looking for trouble" category.

Run 'em out, get a sub, let the coach handle it from there.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Juulie - here's what I would have done.

A1 is about to shoot free throws. A1 is discovered to be wearing earrings. I would make A1 leave to remove the earrings and wait for her. If she refuses to remove them, she is out of the game and her sub can shoot. However, I would not let A1 reenter the game at all, even if she then removes the earrings because that would give an advantage to team A.

If the howler monkey complains, stick a banana in his yap and scratch him behind his ear. He'll calm down.

BTW - if you still need to give up games because of your trip to Metricslovakia, let me know. Thanks.

Mark -- The reason I didn't see the earrings before the game was that the player didn't arrive until late into the second quarter. When she played, she left her long thick hair and it covered up the earrings.

There were only 41 seconds left and A1 had already indicated that she wasn't going to take them out, so I didn't have to worry about letting her back in, thank goodness. The howler monkey was Ken Johnson! who was late getting to the game. The coach I had talked to before the game was someone else whose name I can't remember. He never said a word during the whole discussion, which annoyed me. Although I saw him explaining to Ken later, which I suppose is why Ken came over after the game and apologized.

I was so exhausted Tuesday evening, that I hadn't fully processed this incident, but yesterday, I realized how much better I'd handled it than I would have a year ago. Y'all would have been proud of the way I stood up to this coach who is the organizer of this league, and has a lot of clout. I never lost my temper, but I stuck to my guns, and managed to say the right thing to get him to back down gracefully. And he did apologize later. I feel like I've taken a huge step forward!

Next time, I'll either let the sub shoot, with the stipulation that A1 not return to the game; or I'll clear the lane, let A1 shoot and then let the sub in.

[Mark Padgett]

Juulie - I'm surprised at Ken. He knows better than that. Although I'm not surprised he apologized later. He is a class act.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

I am using your play Mark P. for my posting. All of the rules codes (NFHS/NCAA, NBA/WNBA, and FIBA) prohibit the wearing of jewelry. The prohibition is a safety concern.

When a player is found wearing jewelry in a game played using NFHS/NCAA rules, the player must be substituted for immediately.

Where is this in NF? All I can find is case 3.5.5.A which says a substitute cannot enter with jewelry and rule 3.5.2 which prohibits players from player with jewelry. I see nothing that says the player must be substituted for. It is my understanding that an official may direct the player to remove the jewelry and continue playing, especially if the jewelry is discovered during a dead ball. If there is a specific rule that says you cannot do this, please post it. Thanks.

NFHS R3-S5-A2 prohibits a player from wearing jewelry while playing. The officials do not have the authority to order a player to remover his/her jewelry and the officials should never (sorry, J. Dallas Shirley) instruct or order a player to remove his/her jewelry. When a player is found to be wearing jewelry while playing, the player must leave the game and cannot return until he/she is in compliance with R3-S5-A2. It is a coach's responsibility to make sure that his players are in compliance with R3-S5-A2, not the officials.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Brian Watson

This is a bit of a stretch isn't it? Did you know for a fact that she purposly covered them with band-aids to avoid taking them out to thumb her nose at the rule, or was just ignorant of the rule? I still run into a lot of coaches (especially in club, JO, AAU, etc.) who think the old band-aid trick is OK. Some of these weekend warriors really don't know that it is illegal. I think this falls under the "looking for trouble" category.

Run 'em out, get a sub, let the coach handle it from there.

The bandaid/tape situation has three scenarios:

1) The official discovers before the game that A1 is wearing an earring. At this point, the official should inform that player that the wearing of jewelry is prohibited and that if A1 wants to continue warming up (NFHS) or to play in the game (NFHS/NCAA) he/she must remove the jewelry. The official must be sure that he does not order A1 to remove his/her jewelry. The game officials do not have the authority to order a A1 to remove his/her jewelry.

2) The official discovers before the game that A1 is covering an earring with a bandaid/tape. At this point, the official should inform that player that the wearing of jewelry is prohibited and that if A1 wants to continue warming up (NFHS) or to play in the game (NFHS/NCAA) he/she must remove the jewelry. The official must be sure that he does not order A1 to remove his/her jewelry. The game officials do not have the authority to order a A1 to remove his/her jewelry.

3) The official discovers during the game that A1 is covering earrings with a bandaid/tape. The official did not know that A1 was wearing earrings until it was discovered during the game. A1 must leave the game immediately and cannot play until he/she is in compliance with the no jewelry rule.

In either (1) or (2) if A1 is found to be playing while wearing jewelry that is covered by a bandaid/tape, then a technical foul is warranted for unsportsmanlike conduct. A1 had been informed that wearing jewelry was prohibited and instead tried to use deception to circumvent the rules. A1 will still have to leave the game until he/she is in compliance with the no jewelry rule.

In (3) if A1 is later found to be playing with earrings that are covered with a bandaid/tape, he/she would be subject to the same technical foul penalty as in (1) and (2).

Remember, A1's coach is responsible for A1 complying with the no jewelry rule, not the game officials.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The bandaid/tape situation has three scenarios...

Mark, all you've done here is wrap many more words around
your opinion. Some of us do not agree that this is an
unsportsman-like conduct T. Simply tell her to leave &
tell the coach that covering jewelry with a bandaide is not
good enough.

[bard]

Pertaining to earrings, bandaids, and T's...

This has been a good thread. About half of the girl's games I did last year involved jewelry. However, I never had a girl fail to comply.

What would I do if a girl failed to comply after I had told her? I didn't really think of this until now, but I'm leaning towards siding with DeNucci, Sr. First of all, if I tell a player they cannot play with earrings, I also always tell the coach. There really is no excuse for the player to return to the floor with the earrings still in, other than ignoring my instruction. I believe a 'T' is warranted in this situation, and then they are likely to never do it again.

BTW, after catching a boy with an earring halfway through a game last year, I realized I needed to be just as dilligent checking the guys' ears!