178-174!!!!

[JRutledge]

Now I know you have to ask what this means or what this is. This is the number of fouls that were called in the Laker-Sacramento series. Now somebody please tell me that it made that much of a difference.

Peace

[Kelvin green]

Rut

You know that those four fouls cost somebody 8 points, (because it would have been somebody who always shoots 100% from the line taking them) and that would have changed the whole outcome of the series.

The King fans think the calls should have been 208 to 50 ( with 84 being called on Shaq and Kobe) and the Laker fans think that it should have been 406-0
(Laker fans think that Kobe, Shaq, and company can do no wrong)


I have already heard about Kobe's elbows and the touch fouls that put Shaq on the line.

[JRutledge]

If any of these 3 guys would have stepped up in any way, the Kings would have beat the Lakers. Each moment in the game has its own challenge. If one of these guys makes one 3 point shot when they had the look, Kings win the series. What about the 2 stupid fouls Divac made to foul out before overtime? If he stays in the game that might have given another scorer on the floor. Or why did Rick Adalman not have Bobby Jackson in the game when the other players were cracking? Bibby had a lot of heart and was the only player stepping up in the most critical time. Too bad he could not do it all by himself. But then again, Webber is the All-Star. When you tell the media (talking about Webber) that you are afraid to take it to the hole because you are afraid they will not call a foul, then you have not stepped up to Superstar status. I do not remember other Superstars taking that attitude.

Peace

[Kelvin green]

You mean Chris "I call too many time outs" Webber?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
You mean Chris "I call too many time outs" Webber?

Yes, I hate to admit it, but that is who I am talking about.

Fairness to Webber the bench was all signalling "timeout." That was just as much of a team mistake as an individual one. But then again, I am a huge Michigan Fan.

Peace

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Now I know you have to ask what this means or what this is. This is the number of fouls that were called in the Laker-Sacramento series. Now somebody please tell me that it made that much of a difference.

Peace

This just goes to show you what's wrong with the NBA! How can you expect the best team to win when the refs are so OBVIOUSLY biased!!?!?!?

I think we need to go to the press with this one!

[Dan_ref]

All right, you've gone to the trouble of counting them up.
How about you list number of fouls per game and
maybe we can discuss this further.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
All right, you've gone to the trouble of counting them up.
How about you list number of fouls per game and
maybe we can discuss this further.

I got this information off of "Pardon the Interruption" this afternoon. Stat Boy corrected Wilbon with his claim of the foul differences. I guess I could look it up, but just like our games foul count means little. You still have to make them.

Peace

[Danvrapp]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
All right, you've gone to the trouble of counting them up. How about you list number of fouls per game and maybe we can discuss this further.

Actually, according to ESPN.com, I'm getting a total of 179 - 173. Here they are, broken down by game:

Game     LAL     SAC    Result


 7       25      30     Lakers win 112 - 106


 6       24      31     Lakers win 106 - 102


 5       27      20     Kings win 92 - 91


 4       24      23     Lakers win 100 - 99


 3       28      19     Kings win 103 - 90


 2       31      25     Kings win 96 - 90


 1       20      25     Lakers win 106 - 99


         ---     ---


         179     173

Looks like the team with less fouls wins every game, with the exception being Horry's miracle three at the end of game 4. Must be a conspiracy...

[theboys]

I'm a virgin - be gentle.

Before I ask my question, I have to admit, I've been a voyeur on this site for a couple of months. I have learned an incredible amount, and am, hopefully on my way to recovery from howler monkeydom. I hope I'm at least only a growler monkey now.

Anyway, my question is, and I mean it in all sincerity, have you as an official ever looked back on a close game, and felt like you cost a team a victory with a call or no-call. I mean, players look back at a single moment and consider themselves a goat or a hero based on one play (Horry v. Divac on Horry's 3), even though its never true that one "incident" can cause a victory or loss. I just wonder if officials feel that way.

And, please don't take this in an accusatory manner. Although I've disagreed with officials in the past (and wrongly most of the time!), I like to think I've never blamed a loss or been given a win by officiating. Trust me, I know players and coaches make a lot more mistakes than officials.

[rockyroad]

Welcome to the board! And I love your signature quote...my quick answer to your question is no - I have never felt like I cost a team a game...have I made calls I wish I could take back or realized later were wrong - of course! We all do that...but did they ever cost the game - nope...like you said, there are too many other mistakes that go on...Sacramento fans can point to this call on Divac or that no-call on Shaq, but what it comes down to is 14 missed free-throws and at least 10 missed lay-ins that I can remember...can't win like that...same is true at any level of ball...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by theboys
I'm a virgin - be gentle.

Before I ask my question, I have to admit, I've been a voyeur on this site for a couple of months. I have learned an incredible amount, and am, hopefully on my way to recovery from howler monkeydom. I hope I'm at least only a growler monkey now.

Anyway, my question is, and I mean it in all sincerity, have you as an official ever looked back on a close game, and felt like you cost a team a victory with a call or no-call. I mean, players look back at a single moment and consider themselves a goat or a hero based on one play (Horry v. Divac on Horry's 3), even though its never true that one "incident" can cause a victory or loss. I just wonder if officials feel that way.

And, please don't take this in an accusatory manner. Although I've disagreed with officials in the past (and wrongly most of the time!), I like to think I've never blamed a loss or been given a win by officiating. Trust me, I know players and coaches make a lot more mistakes than officials.

I'll admit I've missed a few. I'll even admit that
there might be one or two I might call differently if given
a second chance that occured during a critical point in a
game. But I truly do not think that I ever cost a team a
game. As you say, there are many variables to consider,
and it's just too easy to blame a loss on one missed free
throw or missed call. However, there is such a thing
as "stepping up" when the pressure's on, and for a referee
that means to stay cool, increase your focus & keep calling
the same game you've been calling all along.

[Brian Watson]

Originally posted by theboys
I'm a virgin - be gentle.

Before I ask my question, I have to admit, I've been a voyeur on this site for a couple of months. I have learned an incredible amount, and am, hopefully on my way to recovery from howler monkeydom. I hope I'm at least only a growler monkey now.

Anyway, my question is, and I mean it in all sincerity, have you as an official ever looked back on a close game, and felt like you cost a team a victory with a call or no-call. I mean, players look back at a single moment and consider themselves a goat or a hero based on one play (Horry v. Divac on Horry's 3), even though its never true that one "incident" can cause a victory or loss. I just wonder if officials feel that way.

And, please don't take this in an accusatory manner. Although I've disagreed with officials in the past (and wrongly most of the time!), I like to think I've never blamed a loss or been given a win by officiating. Trust me, I know players and coaches make a lot more mistakes than officials.

One of the best times to be an official (at least for me) is to break down the game right after with my partners. Like everyone has said, there are ones I "kicked", ones I might have called or not called after thinking about it, but I have never felt I cost a team the game. When a team has zero turnovers, is perfect from the floor and line and loses, then maybe I'll question myself, but to date, that has never happended.

Which is why I found that Duke player getting the red arse after the IU game so funny, the refs didn't miss the free throw...

[dblref]

I'm going to approach this question with a different slant. I remember ejecting a coach in a freshman girls game in my 2nd or 3rd year of officiating that may have "contributed" to the team losing. I whacked the coach after a couple of "stop sign" warnings, 1 from my partner and 1 from me, that the coach ignored. Unfortunately, I was also the one that whacked him the second time about 20 seconds later. He deserved to be tossed, but the bad thing is his assistant coach was an absolute idiot as far as coaching and his team wound up losing by 2 or 3 points after leading by almost 20 points. Now I know that the coach ignored the "stop signs", and we always try to have the other official give the 2nd. T, but I would like to have handled things in a better way. The coach's behavior cost his team the game, but I wonder if I contributed to the loss with the quick second T. I didn't lose any sleep about it, but sometimes we look back and think about what happened.

[stripes]

Originally posted by theboys
Anyway, my question is, and I mean it in all sincerity, have you as an official ever looked back on a close game, and felt like you cost a team a victory with a call or no-call.

I like to think I've never blamed a loss or been given a win by officiating.

Your last statement says it all. If we cost a team a win, then we gave the other team a win. I have never heard a coach or player say anything like "the refs really gave us that game." The statement is totally ridiculous--but that door has to swing both ways--if we take it from one we give it to the other. Players and coaches win and lose--Referees only win.