Com-pre-hen-sion
 

Before start of Boys JV game last night, players removing warm-ups... Visitors have Navy Blue jerseys. A couple of starters have navy tees on, but one kid has a lighter shade of blue, more of a royal blue.

Partner tells the kid he needs to take it off, that all of the team's tees need to be the same color. Kid complies.

At half time I ask partner about this. I suggest that I don't believe that there is a team-wide coordination restriction, just individual player requirements. He disagrees. I suggest we look to the rules book... get it out and read the rule about undershirts:

3-5-5 .... Undershirts shall be a single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey and shall be hemmed and not have frayed or ragged edges. If the undershirt has sleeves, they shall be the same length. A visible manufacturer's logo/trademark/reference is not permitted on the undershirt.

I finish reading and he says "Exactly!" I say "well alrighty then!" and we move on.

Navy blue & royal blue are similar colors, no?
JV game too... why trouble trouble?

If the home team had white t-shirts on & one of the kids had a dirty one that was turning yellow/cream, would he make that player remove it too?

Just to be picky,A single solid color...............not similar colors.

but is the undershirt requirement for a team or a player -- as in single solid color PER shirt or PER team?

3-5-5 .... Undershirts shall be a single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey

Hmmmm................good point.

I think you're correct. Could it be interpreted the other way?

I've always thought that meant per shirt, and that similar to the jersey leaves some room for a small amount of variation. In the dark blue category, there's probably even more room, because of the various ways the light can affect the dyes. I sure wouldn't pick this particular nit at the JV level, although I might at varsity, depending on how far apart the blues were.

While on the uniform topic, I wish the NF, if they want to continue to make us the uniform police, would give us the tools to enforce it...you have to love the situation where the first time you see player undershirts (since they have had warmups on) is when they come out for the jump ball. Then you're sending a starter back to the locker room right before the jump ball b/c he has frayed edges on his undershirt sleeves. Rather than starting the game looking like an OOO, why not do something rule-wise like force all players to remove warm-up tops with 3 minutes left in warm-ups? That way if you have an issue you can fix it before the game starts. You would see a HUGE increase in compliance I am guessing....if they wanted to stop making us the uniform police that would be fine with me too...

I don't see how you are going to tell the kid wearing royal blue that his tee-shirt is illegal. Justification? Is his shirt not a "single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey"? If so, then it is legal.

This isnt really that big of an issue -- especially at the varsity level.

Nice points, I think the good official treats this like a violation/foul that he/she didn't get a good look at.
If you can't clearly tell, then it didn't happen.

Or when you're watching tape & have to rewind it several times to justify your call, probably should've been a no call then.

JMO but if they're wearing blue jerseys & the t-shirt isn't black or green, then it's blue...

Isn't an issue b/c players comply on their own or b/c officials are enforcing it 100%? And when I say 100% I mean no frayed edges on shirts, no visible undershirts (including side panels) that are different color, etc...b/c if you get 100% compliance from players on their own then I want to work where you work...a few weeks ago there was a picture in the paper at one of the biggest xmas tournaments in the state, kid was going up for a shot with his white jersey and BRIGHT RED understhirt on...:eek:

Well it was a XMas tourney wasn't it :D

Yeah but that wasn't Santa Claus!:p

Slow whistle from my experience I get knocked in my evaluations because me and my partner dont have the same type of pants or my black shoes are not what everyone else is wearing. This has never come up and in some cases the reality is, whethere anyone wants to admit it or not, is that there are certain things that are, unfortunatley acceptable, to not make a big deal over if you want to advance. This, in my experience, is one of them.

Whether you enforce or not will have very little bearing on anything, except that you are supported by the rules. Do I? yes. Do I care if an edge might be frayed a bit here or there? No. I have seen the white shirt under many different color jerseys in other "big" games. Do you really think anyone besides some people here notice or care? I dont think so, because those same officials keep getting the "big" games over and over.

I am with DEECEE, don't pick the fly crap out of the pepper. Call a good game and you will be rewarded.

Agree with you completely...just not a big fan of rules that are put in with a "*wink* *wink* don't really enforce that one"...that's why I said I wish they would either stop making us uniform police or give us the tools to deal with it...either would be fine with me...in the mean time I will continue to vent my frustrations on chat boards and dark, not smokey (in IL) bars after games.

I think if one of my partners made a big deal out of navy/royal undershirts in a JV game, I'd be a nervous wreck each time he blew his whistle all night.

Twice this year I have seen male officials tell high school varsity girls that they had to do something about exposed bra straps that were not a color similar to the jersey. First time was when a girl went to the sideline to throw a ball in from out of bounds....although his comments were discrete, her reaction, adjusting her straps, and his patience in putting the ball into play, made the point of his comments quite apparent to all. The other time the enforcement came before player introductions, and was handled discretely, but the girl hadn't returned from the locker room in time to be introduced as one of the starting five.

Seems to me that men questioning girls' undergarments can lead to some real problems. Do others of you do this as well?

In previous years the requirements regarding undergarments and other apparel were individual. 3.5.5 in the current Case Book testifies to this.

However, in the past couple of seasons the NFHS has been moving in the direction of team uniformity as evidenced by the new rules about headbands and wristbands having to be the same color for all participants from a team.

In Alabama, the bras are considered personel gear and are handled......err treated like shoes and socks. Sometimes the ladies will wear non-conforming undershirts which have to be removed but I'm not asking a 16 yr old to do anything with her undergarments.

Until the NFHS tells me I have to, and CHSAA confirms they want us to as well, I'm not even looking at bra straps.

I have an 8 year old daughter, I'm still pretending girls don't need bras until they get to college.

Sounds kinda strict to me. So if one guy has beltless pants and the other guy's wearing a belt, you get dinged?

Denial can be very a very effective tool in dealing with the world;). In 8 years or so when the kid with the Mustang starts showing up at your house you just keep telling yourself " he's here for Bible study".:)

Had the partner who wanted to go down the bra strap street . I did a nice job of gently steering him over to the next street.:rolleyes:

In 2 years, I'm going to start decorating the house with 16 year old boys in mind.

Yes, This Will Be On The NFHS Exam ...
 

After you memorize this: List of colors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You get this: http://ac4.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/1fab751b544177b0

Here's a "cheat sheet": Navy blue is a dark shade of the color blue. Navy blue got its name from the dark blue (contrasted with white) worn by officers in the Royal Navy since 1748 and subsequently adopted by other navies around the world. Royal blue describes both a bright shade and a dark range of blue. It is said to have been invented by millers in Rode, Somerset, a consortium of which won a competition to make a dress for Queen Charlotte. Traditionally, dictionaries define royal blue as a deep to dark blue, often with a purple or faint reddish tinge.

Here in the Constitution State, we're proud of our National Flag Blue and White University of Connecticut Huskies. I just wish that we hadn't spent so much of our tax dollars deciding on this particular shade of blue: http://www.uconn.edu/history/yestery...blue_white.php

And Boys Aren't Allowed To Use The 28.5 Ball ...
 

Your partner was clearly wrong. The rule that the brassiere shall be a single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey applies only to boys games. See NFHS 11-2-3-C.

I would encourage your partner to observe other things during the warmups in a girls game. I would think that jewelry, and undershirts, would suffice (I've been reading way too many of mbyron posts lately)?

I was watching a game recently GV.

Home team had jerseys with a wide amount of fabric at the top of the shoulder.
Some players tucked the fabric under their bra straps.
Referee made them untuck them, commenting about "wearing the uniform as it was made to be worn"

Same reason we make them unroll their waist bands on their shorts.

Wait...
 

.... is that a geriatric league??:D

Second Time's A Charm ...
 

Classic example of overly officious officiating. No, I'm wrong. Let me try it again. Classic example of wrong.

What ???
 

I have absolutely no idea what you're posting about.

Why, was I speaking in Padgett?

Indeed. I would think having a trash bag protruding from the uniform would be illegal.:p

OK, I'm curious: could you provide an example of officiating that's just the right amount of officious? [/peeve]

Eviscerate? I've Never Used That Word Before, Ever, Help, I Can't Stop ...
 

Didn't your mother ever read you Robert Southey's, "Goldilocks and the Three Bears", at bedtime? It's been a very long time, but if I remember correctly, the three bears eviscerate, and eat, Goldilocks because she tastes "just right". Just take it from there.

Padgett, mbyron, English? I'm Still Clueless ???
 

I still have no idea what you were posting about. Help.

Interesting...
 

<meta http-equiv="CONTENT-TYPE" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <title></title> <meta name="GENERATOR" content="OpenOffice.org 2.4 (Linux)"> <style type="text/css"> <!-- @page { size: 8.5in 11in; margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } --> </style> I submit this in respectful homage of mbyron:


My goodness, who would have ever envisioned that a thread labeled "com-pre-hen-sion" would meander such a trail. It has encompassed so many paths of tertiary rule enforcement I think I will ask if there are more rules we can obfuscate? For I too am curious as to the threshold at which one becomes over officious.

Your reply made me smile. Then I realized I don't understand what you mean. :confused: But I still smiled.:)

Reconcile? I've Never Used That Word Before Either, Ever, Help, I Can't Stop ...
 

I think that that's the point of about 25% of the threads, and posts, on the Forum. A really good official has to know, and fully understand, almost every single one of all rules, but it doesn't end there. That really good official must also know when, and how, to apply those rules, keeping in mind the intent and purpose of the rules, as stated by the NFHS. Lots of wiggle room there. Reconciling the rules, and the intent and purpose of those rules, is not an easy task. Not only does it vary from one area to another, but it may also vary within a particular area. That's part of the challenge of becoming a really good official.

yeah yeah yeah; I let it linger but fixed it.

:D
I'm going to start getting decorations that would be more likely to frighten a 16 year old boy.

Not sure what yet, though. I'll have to do some research and maybe get a marketing company to do some focus groups.

Teenage Repellents ???
 

Newspapers. Real paper newspapers.
Vinyl records. They don't have to be 78's. 45's, and 33's should do it.
Alarm clocks. Most teenagers hate getting up in the morning.
Mirrors. Lots of teenagers have poor self images.
Over the air television. No cable, or satellite dish.

We do??? :confused: I have never once made them do anything with their waistband aside from putting their shirt in it or pulling it up. If it is rolled over, I have no reason to do anything about that.

I've had a partner address this before. I never notice.

"Thats all I can stands and I can't stands no more?" (Popeye, 1929) ...
 

OK. That's enough. Are you guys tormenting me on purpose? What on God's green Earth are you talking about?