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-   -   P.O.I. I'm not giving up until I get this right. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50806-p-o-i-im-not-giving-up-until-i-get-right.html)

referee99 Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:42am
P.O.I. I'm not giving up until I get this right.
 
I have read 4-4. Understood.

SECTION 4 BALL LOCATION, AT DISPOSAL

ART.3...A ball which is in flight retains the same location as when it was last in contact with a player or the court.

ART.4...A ball which touches a player or an official is the same as the ball touching the floor at that individual's location.

ART.5...A ball which touches the front faces or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, except that when the ball touches the thrower's backboard it does not constitute a part of the dribble.

Now, on a try:

A1, from beyond the 3-point line in the middle of the court releases a try towards their basket. A2 and B2 are engaged in rough play and are called for a double foul while the try is in flight. Where, O where are we inbounding the ball if:

a) try is good.
b) try goes out-of-bounds near the basket.
c) try hits the basket or backboard and does not go in.
d) ball is caught by another player near the basket.

OHBBREF Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:01am
fairly simple
 
a) try is good.
Endline with the right to move
Because the ball is not dead until it goes through the basket that is
where the interuption is
b) try goes out-of-bounds near the basket.
Endline spot throw in where ball went OOB or where the shot was taken
Because the ball is not dead until it is determined the shot is not good
so you could blow it dead once it gets below the basket and take it back to
the point where the shot was taken
c) try hits the basket or backboard and does not go in.
Endline spot throwin
Because the ball is not dead until it is determined the shot is not good
the position of the ball is the backboard or rim.
d) ball is caught by another player near the basket.
spot OOB nearest where player left the floor before catching the ball
Because the ball is not dead until it is determined the shot is not good so
where the player was last in contact with the floor is the position of the
ball.

mick Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 566528)
I have read 4-4. Understood.

SECTION 4 BALL LOCATION, AT DISPOSAL

ART.3...A ball which is in flight retains the same location as when it was last in contact with a player or the court.

ART.4...A ball which touches a player or an official is the same as the ball touching the floor at that individual's location.

ART.5...A ball which touches the front faces or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, except that when the ball touches the thrower's backboard it does not constitute a part of the dribble.

Now, on a try:

A1, from beyond the 3-point line in the middle of the court releases a try towards their basket. A2 and B2 are engaged in rough play and are called for a double foul while the try is in flight. Where are we inbounding the ball if:

a) try is good.
b) try goes out-of-bounds near the basket.
c) try hits the basket or backboard and does not go in.
d) ball is caught by another player near the basket.

Look at results of try, either made or missed.
If try is good, B ball on endline.
If try misses, arrow.

Ch1town Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 566528)
A1, from beyond the 3-point line in the middle of the court releases a try towards their basket. A2 and B2 are engaged in rough play and are called for a double foul while the try is in flight. Where are we inbounding the ball if:

a) try is good.
b) try goes out-of-bounds near the basket.
c) try hits the basket or backboard and does not go in.
d) ball is caught by another player near the basket.
a) endline running for B
b, c & d) AP throw-in

referee99 Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:13am
I've changed OP for clarity... the question is WHERE?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 566550)
a) endline running for B
b, c & d) AP throw-in
Where are we inbounding the ball?

mick Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 566553)
Where are we inbounding the ball?
Throw-in where the try ended, baseline at lane extended. ;)

Ch1town Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 566553)
Where are we inbounding the ball?
My bad, reading IS fundamental huh :)

I'm thinking that the whistle isn't going to kill the shot, so a AP throw-in on the endline is the POI for a miss. Endline runnin' on the make.

jevaque Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:44am
Basket is good B get a throw-in anywhere on endline

Basket is missed, AP arrow because there is no team control on a shot, so throw-in is going to be poi

Ch1town Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevaque (Post 566577)
Basket is good B get a throw-in anywhere on endline

Basket is missed, AP arrow because there is no team control on a shot, so throw-in is going to be at the spot closest to the foul.
Double foul in the post ball outside the arc, no attempt, where would you administer the throw-in?

jevaque Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:55am
where the ball is u beat me before i could correct my post

Ch1town Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:59am
My bad, just wanted to make sure everyone who is trying to grab the concept understands why & for what reason.

bob jenkins Fri Jan 09, 2009 01:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 566528)
A1, from beyond the 3-point line in the middle of the court releases a try towards their basket. A2 and B2 are engaged in rough play and are called for a double foul while the try is in flight. Where, O where are we inbounding the ball if:

a) try is good.
b) try goes out-of-bounds near the basket.
c) try hits the basket or backboard and does not go in.
d) ball is caught by another player near the basket.

Note that in 4-36 (POI), the phrase "where the ball was located" only occurs in 4-36-2a (when there's TC).

There's no TC in your play.

4-36-2b (the section for a throw-in) and 4-36-2c (the section for no TC) do not specify a specific spot for the throw-in. So, we need to go to7-5-3 which specifies "where the ball became dead."

In all your plays, the ball became dead near the basket -- so the throw-in will be from the end-line.

referee99 Fri Jan 09, 2009 02:02pm
Has bJenks 'cracked the code'?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 566664)
Note that in 4-36 (POI), the phrase "where the ball was located" only occurs in 4-36-2a (when there's TC).

There's no TC in your play.

4-36-2b (the section for a throw-in) and 4-36-2c (the section for no TC) do not specify a specific spot for the throw-in. So, we need to go to 7-5-3 which specifies "where the ball became dead."

In all your plays, the ball became dead near the basket -- so the throw-in will be from the end-line.
Bob, is this the missing link in all my POI threads and my cognitive disconnect?

So, say, on a throw-in by Team B from end line, player B2 taps an inbounds pass towards the division line. B1 and A1, wrestling, are called for double foul. When double foul occurs, ball was in flight at division line. Our POI will be the division line, because that is "where the ball was" and not in the back court where it was last touched by B2?

IREFU2 Fri Jan 09, 2009 04:20pm
Yeah, I dont know where the AP thing is coming in. Double Foul, Double Techincal Fouls and Simultanous Fouls are all POI. I believe a blarge is an exception to the rule...

M&M Guy Fri Jan 09, 2009 04:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IREFU2 (Post 566847)
Yeah, I dont know where the AP thing is coming in. Double Foul, Double Techincal Fouls and Simultanous Fouls are all POI. I believe a blarge is an exception to the rule...
The AP comes in when there is a shot in the air at the time of the double foul, and the shot is missed. As per 4-36-2(c), "An AP throwin when the POI is such that neither team is in control (check - no team control once a shot is released), and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is involved (check - no basket because shot was missed)."


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