LDUB:

So what you are saying is that you do not count players before putting the ball into play. I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that you also put the ball into play without making eye contact with your partner(s) too.

MTD, Sr.

Of course I count the players. The difference between me and you is that I have no problem calling a technical foul if a team has 6 players; you think to yourself that you don't want to rectify this problem with a technical foul because you caused it.

LDUB:

If you count six players, are you going to put the ball into play and then charge the team with a TF or are you going withhold the ball from being put into play and inform the team that it has six players?

MTD, Sr.

So if you were me the other night when the home team came out with 6 players to start the 4th quarter you would've put the ball in play then whacked them with a T??

That's the way I read it...

Oh please. That isn't close to what he said.

Of course he uses "preventive officiating" in this situation. We all (I assume) do.

But we recognize that there's a difference between "maanaging the game" and "complying with the rules." The former is our job; the latter is the job of the playewrs and coaches. SOmetimes the actions required are similar (e.g., both want to be sure that each team has 5 and only 5 players), but the specific responsibilities and penalties are different.

I'm gonna start with, "always listen to Bob."

While the officials may have failed to prevent the infraction, you cannot claim they caused it.

Yes, of course I would say something. It is still not to make job to make sure there are 5 players, that is the job of the teams. The problem was cause by them having 6 players not by me failing to notice soon enough.

LDUB:

It MOST certainly IS YOUR JOB to make sure there are five players for each team on the court before you put the ball into play.

You had better be counting player and your partner(s) had better be counting players and the ball should never be put into play until all of the officials are happy with the player count.

MTD, Sr.

Sorry, you are wrong, it is not my job to do so, it is the teams' jobs. You sound like some coach trying to blame the officials when his team just got caught with 6 players.

Look, I'm the first guy to say it's the coach's job, or the NFHS wouldn't not have made this a T.

That said, this is the one T we're expected to prevent by counting players. Let me ask, do you hold the game up if you see 6 for one team?

And MTD is the last one I'd compare to a whiny coach since he's been working college ball since I was in diapers.

LDUB:


IF YOU INTEND TO BE A SUCCESSFUL BASKETBALL OFFICIAL YOU HAD BETTER DAMN WELL BE COUNTING PLAYERS BEFORE YOU PUT THE BALL INTO PLAY. TO PUT THE BALL INTO PLAY WITHOUT COUNTING PLAYERS IS ON OF THE BIGGEST SINS A BASKETBALL OFFICIAL CAN COMMIT. IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO PLAY GOTCHA WITH A TEAM. YOUR ATTITUDE ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTS ME.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

MTD, Sr.

LDUB, I dont know if you're an IAABO official or not, but per Substitution Procedures & Guidelines

#6. The official responsible for substitutions shall display the stop clock signal until all substiutions are completed & players are counted.

MTD - I could barely read your post. Do you have a strong opinion on this subject? ;)

Do you even read the other posts in this discussion?

I do not see what the big deal is. Someone commented that if there are 6 players the officials caused the problem. That is not correct and I said that. You obviously do not understand the rules of basketball and/or do not read what I have written. If you are really that disgusted I suggest you reread this discussion.

You have yet to answer the question. If you see there are 6 players on the floor during a substitution, do you hold up play?

Please answer. YES or NO.:rolleyes:


The fact that there are 6 players on the floor is the officials fault in this context:

Proper game management includes not allowing substitutes to enter until beckoned. Do you agree?
Trail usually beckons them on. When you are Trail in this situation do you hold the stop clock sign until the substituted personnel exit the floor?

If there are 6 players on the floor when you follow this procedure, HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? The only way this happened, either you did not properly count or didn't bother to count. YOUR FAULT.