Ugh!

snorman75 · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 01:28am

OK, let me get this right, the team scored 3 points at half AND you had called 14 fouls against them? Did she have money on the game? I am joking. Who was the senior official? What did you talk about at half time? I would have told her everything you posted.

Juulie Downs · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 01:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by snorman75

OK, let me get this right, the team scored 3 points at half AND you had called 14 fouls against them? Did she have money on the game? I am joking. Who was the senior official? What did you talk about at half time? I would have told her everything you posted.

Yea, I tried to talk to her at the quarter and at half-time. That was when she was explaining her philosophy to me. That's why the title of this thread is Ugh!

muxbule · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 01:37am

Get in
Get done
Get out
and pray the next time you work together she has taken to heart your halftime comments.
Welcome back to officiating. That is sincere and not sarcastic based on what you ran into.

just another ref · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 01:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

.....she was explaining her philosophy to me.

Only thing worse than a weak official is a weak official with a philosophy.

Chess Ref · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 10:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref

Only thing worse than a weak official is a weak official with a philosophy.

LOL thats funny.

ajs8207 · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 10:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref

Only thing worse than a weak official is a weak official with a philosophy.

On a related note, does anyone find the "call the obvious" philosophy ridiculous? I'm in my 2nd year, and it really throws me off when my partner, almost always senior to me, tells me that we should just "call the obvious." I've had my worst couple games as an official when I've been told that. Should I just ignore that comment, or how do I handle it so it doesn't throw me off?

Nevadaref · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 11:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajs8207

On a related note, does anyone find the "call the obvious" philosophy ridiculous?

No, I think that it is a great starting point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajs8207

I'm in my 2nd year, and it really throws me off when my partner, almost always senior to me, tells me that we should just "call the obvious." I've had my worst couple games as an official when I've been told that. Should I just ignore that comment, or how do I handle it so it doesn't throw me off?

You may have a point that this advice isn't too helpful for a new official. That person just doesn't know yet what is an obvious foul or violation that should be called.

I'll have to give that some consideration when working with a 1st or 2nd year guy.

BktBallRef · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 12:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajs8207

On a related note, does anyone find the "call the obvious" philosophy ridiculous? I'm in my 2nd year, and it really throws me off when my partner, almost always senior to me, tells me that we should just "call the obvious." I've had my worst couple games as an official when I've been told that. Should I just ignore that comment, or how do I handle it so it doesn't throw me off?

Call the obvious equals:

Don't make **** up.

Don't look for stupid ****.

Call what you see, not what you think will happen.

You're a second year and even though you don't understand a lot of these principles being thrown at you, they are time tested and work. If you don't understand, ask questions. But don't assume it's ridiculous just because you don't understand it.

dbking · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 01:09pm

Your partner must be from KS. I worked a fill in game with ugh. UGH let me know ugh's philosophy as well. I stood behind every call that UGH made, no matter how bad I thought that it was or how upset the coach was, until late 4th quarter, home team down 3 with the ball. Girl is on a dribble drive to the basket.

"Tweet", I am lead opposite. Ugh is trail ball side and table side, aka coach is two steps from UGH. I am expecting anything but not what came out. We had a travel. Coach goes into orbit, "She was dribbling the ball how can we have a travel." Not bad for the coach to know the rule. I went and talked to UGH. I asked her what was the violation. UGH tells me it is a travel. I asked UGH politely if girl was dribbling the ball. UGH said yes! I told UGH we did not have a travel and it would be home team ball on the baseline. UGH was mad. Both coaches were happy that we got the call right. Visiting team coach was laughing at the call.

UGH did not talk to me rest of game. Thank goodness there was only 1:30 left.

I feel better now that I have vented.

UGH must get lots of frequent travel miles!

ajs8207 · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 02:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Call the obvious equals:

Don't make **** up.

Don't look for stupid ****.

Call what you see, not what you think will happen.

You're a second year and even though you don't understand a lot of these principles being thrown at you, they are time tested and work. If you don't understand, ask questions. But don't assume it's ridiculous just because you don't understand it.

Maybe I was misinterpreting it. I was always interpreting it as lets let them play unless something crazy happens, and get out of here as quickly as we can. I guess I shouldn't interpret it that way?

Nevadaref · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 03:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajs8207

Maybe I was misinterpreting it. I was always interpreting it as lets let them play unless something crazy happens, and get out of here as quickly as we can. I guess I shouldn't interpret it that way?

That's right. I tried to put it in nicer terms than Tony given that it's the holiday season, but you are really too new to have a grasp of this or any other basketball officiating philosophy yet. Give it time and stuff like this will come to you.
For now just go out and call what you see.

You did a good thing by coming on here and asking. You will get some helpful answers. You also helped me by giving me a better perspective on the mindset of new official. Hopefully, I can now be a better partner and communicate more effectively when I work with a newbie.

Camron Rust · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajs8207

Maybe I was misinterpreting it. I was always interpreting it as lets let them play unless something crazy happens, and get out of here as quickly as we can. I guess I shouldn't interpret it that way?

No it shouldn't.

Here's my take...

Relax and see the entire play....make no decision the instant the "foul" occurs but make the decision just after it occurs, your choices will improve. By waiting a second or two to blow the whistle, you'll find that some of those "fouls" didn't really matter and things just might work out better for the "fouled" player (and you can simply not call it) OR you'll know that it needs to be called. At the same time, most of the players/coaches will also know the same thing by the time you blow the whistle and will not be surprised.

If you're blowing the whistle as the foul is still occurring, you'll often be anticipating the call because you haven't seen enough of the play to know whether it should be a foul or not....take your time and make decisions, not reactions.

M&M Guy · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajs8207

Maybe I was misinterpreting it. I was always interpreting it as lets let them play unless something crazy happens, and get out of here as quickly as we can. I guess I shouldn't interpret it that way?

Perhaps there are officials that interpret "call the obvious" as you have stated. But that's not what most us mean when we state it. As you call more games, you will see that there are calls made based on "circumstantial evidence", or what the official "thinks" happened. Those are not obvious calls, and those are the ones that get officials in trouble.

There seems to be a natural progression in officials as they gain more experience. Early, officials may be afraid to blow the whistle. Then they learn to blow the whistle all the time, even for things they think they see, or things that simply look funny. Many of these calls are made because the official is not in the proper spot to see the play. After a while, as they get better, they learn to distinguish what actually is a foul or violation from things that look bad. Those are the obvious calls. Then the really good officials learn about positioning, so they can be in position to see more of the obvious calls.

mutantducky · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 08:16pm

Ugh, I worked with a really bad official a few weeks ago and it was almost as if he hadn't even seen a basketball game before. Right, from the opening tip when he tossed it starting below the players' waists. When I was playing high school we had a ref who flat out told us he was changing the way he called the game to favor the team that was down after my team was winning easily. This happened a few times until my coach complained and the ref didn't do anymore of our games. lesson- keep the calls consistent and fair.

JRutledge · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 31, 2008, 05:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajs8207

On a related note, does anyone find the "call the obvious" philosophy ridiculous? I'm in my 2nd year, and it really throws me off when my partner, almost always senior to me, tells me that we should just "call the obvious." I've had my worst couple games as an official when I've been told that. Should I just ignore that comment, or how do I handle it so it doesn't throw me off?

No I do not. This probably suggests you do not understand what that means. After all you are a second year official and I would assume you have not learned what is "obvious" yet.

Peace