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-   -   More handshake idiocy (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50477-more-handshake-idiocy.html)

rpirtle Wed Dec 24, 2008 01:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayStateRef (Post 561278)
....I can decide how to officiate my games, but my assignors might not agree with my decision. I say "might" because two of my assignors have left it up to me (and my partners). Other assignors have explicitly told their officials that they MUST take part in the handshake or they will have their games withdrawn. So being "independent" doesn't mean I can do what I want -- unless I am willing to accept the consequences of not getting assignments for high school varsity games.

How many "Assignors" does a typical basketball official have in MA...??? I know that states vary on how school districts are setup, how officials are certified, how games are assigned, etc.

I'm in TX where school districts are usually set up by individual towns or cities (as opposed to "Unified School Districts"...as in CA by counties). The State's educational governing body for inter-school competitions (both acedemic and athletic) is UIL. UIL states in their constitution that schools should...yes should...use only TASO officials for all varsity high school competitions.

For this reason, we have to be a member of one of the 14 TASO Chapters to work varsity games. Each Chapter has an Assignment Secretary that is a paid position within that Chapter. So most officials here have only one assignor for all their games (yes...I finally got to my point... :eek: ). I also worked for about 5 years in Sacramento (ending in 1999) where it worked much the same way. What's it like in MA...???

Nevadaref Wed Dec 24, 2008 09:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 561294)
If the officials would come together on this stupidity, like they should, there would be no officials to assign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 561297)
Too many don't care.

I care, but I happen to be on the other side in this debate. I like the efforts of the MIAA. I think that there are some details that need adjusting, but overall I support the idea.

Adam Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 561347)
I care, but I happen to be on the other side in this debate. I like the efforts of the MIAA. I think that there are some details that need adjusting, but overall I support the idea.

Fortunately, you're on the other side of the country as well. :)

I get their purpose, and it's a nice thought. There's just no reason to have the officials standing there postgame when everyone's emotions are heated. As scrappy said, do it before the game if you want the refs there.

Nevadaref Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 561408)
I get their purpose, and it's a nice thought. There's just no reason to have the officials standing there postgame when everyone's emotions are heated. As scrappy said, do it before the game if you want the refs there.

That would completely defeat the purpose. What we are after here is people learning to control their emotions and that it is just a game played for fun and recreation. When it's over, it's over and you go away without negative thoughts and feelings.

How would a pregame handshake when there are no emotions and thoughts that decisions have gone against someone be in anyway similar?
How would it teach people to cope with what happened in the game?
It wouldn't.

Adam Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:56pm

The problem really isn't the players and coaches, as has been alluded to, there is ample authority to deal with them even if the score is set. The problem is the fans.

1. You're not going to "teach" them anything in this setting.
2. You're setting up stationary targets at mid-court with their back to half the crowd.
3. What happens when an AD is either intimidated or incompetent, as Scrappy (I think) dealt with last season?

I'm not sure what details could be changed to make this acceptable.

Ref Ump Welsch Wed Dec 24, 2008 01:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 561238)
Not counting the Bay State, are there any other interscholastic, or intercollegiate, sports where the officials customarily, or by rule, stick around after the game, or match, or meet, has been decided, for some type of post game handshake? Does the Massachusetts handshake edict only apply to basketball, or to all interscholastic sports in that state?

I know that in the NJCAA, soccer officials must stick around for the handshake after the game. This is how one team was eliminated from being allowed to play in the postseason even though they won their conference regular season title, because one of the players started a post-game fracas and apparently not on just one occasion.

Rich Wed Dec 24, 2008 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 561419)
That would completely defeat the purpose. What we are after here is people learning to control their emotions and that it is just a game played for fun and recreation. When it's over, it's over and you go away without negative thoughts and feelings.

How would a pregame handshake when there are no emotions and thoughts that decisions have gone against someone be in anyway similar?
How would it teach people to cope with what happened in the game?
It wouldn't.

If the officials stay, they should keep jurisdiction.

Why does it require officials to do a PGHS? Aren't the coaches and administrators supervising the kids and being the adults?

When the game ends, the officials' role is over.

And all this is theoretical, anyway. No way this ever goes national. Too many states, I bet, would find the emphasis on this to be moronic.

(Wasn't MA the state that tried requiring mouthguards and also made a boy wear a skirt to play field hockey?)

Nevadaref Wed Dec 24, 2008 02:08pm

Rich,
Go back and look at post #34 in this thread for my thoughts on what you have just written.

Rich Wed Dec 24, 2008 02:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 561457)
Rich,
Go back and look at post #34 in this thread for my thoughts on what you have just written.

I am happier with your implementation of this, to be honest. I just don't think a lot of fans can be changed in the way this would require. I sit in the stands during JV games and will go to a playoff game I am not assigned and the level of ignorance and stupidity shown by the fans is just astounding. In an empty gym, I would not blink an eye at being part of the handshake line.

I will always shake a player's or coach's hand if they present it to me.

I just don't think it's all as simple as the MIAA does. I wonder how many of those policymakers have ever put on a whistle and officiated.

Nevadaref Wed Dec 24, 2008 02:17pm

Perhaps we should be looking ahead to the next generation of fans sitting in the stands. If these people are the kids playing today and they learn to view and interact with the game officials differently, then perhaps down the road things will be better when they are the ones who are sitting in the stands.

I agree that it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to change the beliefs of the older folks who are the current bleacher bums.

It has been said that if you wish to better the world, then teach a child something good.

BayStateRef Wed Dec 24, 2008 09:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpirtle (Post 561313)
How many "Assignors" does a typical basketball official have in MA...??? I know that states vary on how school districts are setup, how officials are certified, how games are assigned, etc.

I have three assignors for my varsity schedule...and I would say that is not unusual. Assignors are hired by the leagues -- and some handle only boys or girls. So a single league of nine, 10 or 12 schools can have two assignors. Some assignors handle only varsity and delegate sub-varsity games to another assignor. Officials are certified to work high school games....but not by the state. It leaves it up to independent officials' associations. Most officials in Massachusetts are members of IAABO, which has 13 boards in the state. There are also a handful of much smaller associations.

There have been a number of retirements and resignations by assignors in the last few years, which has changed the landscape. When I started about 10 years ago, I worked exclusively for one assignor, who had five or six leagues -- boys and girls and who had been around forever. When he retired his leagues were given to at least four assignors.

Stat-Man Sat Dec 27, 2008 09:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 561275)
Mark Padgett: Do you hang around to observe handshakes after the croquet match after you have approved the final score?

(What a straight line. This is going to be good)

I'm happy if my friends and associates even remember to shake hands after our croquet games :D

<img src="http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/twocents.gif" title="image: two cents">: I'm all for promoting good sportsmanship, but It's my own opinion that if you make a PGHS mandatory, it loses some of its significance and meaning and is a statement that whoever made the rule doesn't trust the participants to do it on their own.

26 Year Gap Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stat-Man (Post 562030)
I'm happy if my friends and associates even remember to shake hands after our croquet games :D

<img src="http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/twocents.gif" title="image: two cents">: I'm all for promoting good sportsmanship, but It's my own opinion that if you make a PGHS mandatory, it loses some of its significance and meaning and is a statement that whoever made the rule doesn't trust the participants to do it on their own.

Why don't they have a post-session handshake at the statehouse every day that is observed by the sgt at arms?


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