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-   -   Crew Consistency (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50432-crew-consistency.html)

referee99 Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:05pm

Crew Consistency
 
I have been making a concerted effort to use the correct terminology and language from the rules book.

This leads to communication during games such as:

"White ball endline!"

"Blue ball at the division line"

"55 get out of the lane"

"Two throws!"

etc.

Most if not all partners that I have use "key", "baseline", "shots", etc.
This is a common language amongst players, fans, coaches and officials.
I understand that.

My question is should I consider changing my language to match partners in an effort to ensure crew consistency?

Nevadaref Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:07pm

NO. Talk like an official, not a moron.

Adam Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 559712)
Most if not all partners that I have use "key", "baseline", "shots", etc.
This is a common language amongst players, fans, coaches and officials.
I understand that.

My question is should I consider changing my language to match partners in an effort to ensure crew consistency?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 559714)
NO. Talk like an official, not a moron.

Okay, I understand the sentiment here, especially with things like "reach" and "over the back," but I'm not sure how the terms noted above indicate a "moron." How are they detrimental terms?

M&M Guy Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 559714)
NO. Talk like an official, not a moron.

Ah, good see the real Nevada came back. :D

I do agree in principle that using the language and terms in the rule book is a great idea, and you can never be faulted for doing it the "right way". But remember our job is not only to adjudicate, but also communicate, whether it's by verbal or non-verbal methods. So if you occasionally use a common phrase that is more understood by the masses, on an extra signal that helps explain what really happened, I don't think that makes you a moron. (Just don't use the over-the-back phrase or "reach"; those grate on my nerves as well.)

I will also nit-pick one of the phrases you mentioned - I don't mention specific player numbers when trying to talk them out of possible violations. If a coach hears that, they are more likely to say, "Why are you telling 55 to get out of the lane? Why not just call the violation on 55?" If you remain vague, ("Keep moving", for example) the players might catch it, but the coach might not.

referee99 Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:42pm

I hear ya...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 559723)
Ah, good see the real Nevada came back. :D

I'm not sure about Nevada's response. He did say NO to my question about whether I should consider changing... So I'm unharmed (so far)
Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 559723)
I will also nit-pick one of the phrases you mentioned - I don't mention specific player numbers when trying to talk them out of possible violations. If a coach hears that, they are more likely to say, "Why are you telling 55 to get out of the lane? Why not just call the violation on 55?" If you remain vague, ("Keep moving", for example) the players might catch it, but the coach might not.

You know I just read something from someone else about not being player specific about warnings. To clarify, I'm talking to players early in game, letting them know I'm aware of them and what they are doing -- preventative officiating. But I am going to try to avoid the specific numbers going forward.

JugglingReferee Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 559717)
Okay, I understand the sentiment here, especially with things like "reach" and "over the back," but I'm not sure how the terms noted above indicate a "moron." How are they detrimental terms?

I'm with you - I have no problem with "key", "baseline", "shots".

Adam Fri Dec 19, 2008 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 559725)
I'm with you - I have no problem with "key", "baseline", "shots".

I don't use "key" and "baseline," I just point and say, "white ball right there." I do, however, use "shots" when referring to free throws.

"Two shots, partner."

When administering, I'll say "Two shots," to the players.

Or, conversely, "One shot, let it hit."

JRutledge Fri Dec 19, 2008 01:12pm

If you can use the rulebook language, but we do have jargon that is acceptable and understood in our game. I would not worry about using that jargon as long as it is accurate and easily understood. I do not know anyone that would get upset (not in real life) if you said "Key" or "Baseline." If this is what you are really worried about or an assignor is worried about this, then you or they have too much to worry about. These terms are not the same as saying "over the back" or "moving screen" while calling fouls. This is a completely different set of circumstances if you ask me.

Peace

dbking Fri Dec 19, 2008 01:51pm

55 out of the lane
 
I learned at a recent camp from a very veteran official..

"White, keep moving"

It is a game management tool. Coach can not say you are favoring one team or to call the violation. It works just the same and causes no controversy.

Ch1town Fri Dec 19, 2008 01:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbking (Post 559755)
I learned at a recent camp from a very veteran official..

"White, keep moving"

It is a game management tool. Coach can not say you are favoring one team or to call the violation. It works just the same and causes no controversy.


Strange, I too learned at a recent camp from a very veteran official...

Use no colors or numbers.

Reasoning:
On one end you (L) say "white keep moving" or "55 out the lane" & on the other end your partner (L) hits them with a 3 second violation. Now who's coaching who? I'm sure the coach is wondering why the crew helped on one end but not the other. Especially if this scenario happens in the first half, know what I mean?

JRutledge Fri Dec 19, 2008 02:02pm

I have been taught several times to always use color and the place the ball will go (no exceptions). I guess this is a "When in Rome...." situation.

Peace

referee99 Fri Dec 19, 2008 02:21pm

i can dig it.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 559759)
Strange, I too learned at a recent camp from a very veteran official...

Use no colors or numbers.

Reasoning:
On one end you (L) say "white keep moving" or "55 out the lane" & on the other end your partner (L) hits them with a 3 second violation. Now who's coaching who? I'm sure the coach is wondering why the crew helped on one end but not the other. Especially if this scenario happens in the first half, know what I mean?

will be going into practice at 5:30pm local time today.

Nevadaref Fri Dec 19, 2008 02:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 559725)
I'm with you - I have no problem with "key", "baseline", "shots".

How about "on the floor?"

Adam Fri Dec 19, 2008 03:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 559779)
How about "on the floor?"

I never use this one, but I hear "veteran" officials use it occasionally.

Raymond Fri Dec 19, 2008 03:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 559712)
I have been making a concerted effort to use the correct terminology and language from the rules book.

This leads to communication during games such as:

"White ball endline!"

"Blue ball at the division line"

"55 get out of the lane"

"Two throws!"

etc.

Most if not all partners that I have use "key", "baseline", "shots", etc.
This is a common language amongst players, fans, coaches and officials.
I understand that.

My question is should I consider changing my language to match partners in an effort to ensure crew consistency?

I use words like "baseline" and "2 shots" all the time...and if there is one aspect of my officiating that I'm all receiving kudos for it's communicating with my partners....so I'll probably continue to use those moronic terms. :cool:

There is a big difference between saying "Blue ball at half court" and reporting an "over the back" at the scorer's table. But that's just my humble opinion.

But there is nothing wrong with you using the correct terminology. There is no reason for you to change that.


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