Wow, Did I just see that!

Originally Posted by referee99

Had a kid make a clean block up top, but contact shooter with his chest. Called a push at the spot, and answered kids question with a tap to the chest (mine) as I go to report.

Couple of questions (for the board):

1. Clean block up top with body contact, should that be reported as a "push" or "block" accompanied by the verbal "BODY" to sell the call?

2. Should we give the kid the finger (STOP it) the wait-a-minute finger, go report then come back to explain?

[Mark Padgett]

Now that I think about it, a lot of my problems started after I used the "hit to the head" signal about 20 times in one game.

[referee99]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Now that I think about it, a lot of my problems started after I used the "hit to the head" signal about 20 times in one game.

forearm trouble after one game with lots of emphatic illegal use of hands calls.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Couple of questions (for the board):

1. Clean block up top with body contact, should that be reported as a "push" or "block" accompanied by the verbal "BODY" to sell the call?

2. Should we give the kid the finger (STOP it) the wait-a-minute finger, go report then come back to explain?

I would question why you are calling a foul on the first one. There is always going to be some contact on a blocked shot. If it was clean first, let the other contact go. If the body contact took place first, then you can have a legitimate foul.

Just my take.

Peace

I concur JRut, let me re-word that so I don't sound like a complete moron

1. Clean block up top with simultaneous body contact that is say, 60/40 or 55/45, should that be reported as a "push" or "block" accompanied by the verbal "BODY" to sell the call?

Now, any answers to the 2 previous questions would be greatly appreciated. I just want to get it right...

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE=Ch1town;559740]I concur JRut, let me re-word that so I don't sound like a complete moron

Originally Posted by Ch1town

1. Clean block up top with simultaneous body contact that is say, 60/40 or 55/45, should that be reported as a "push" or "block" accompanied by the verbal "BODY" to sell the call?

I would still make the case that the body contact would have to come first to have a foul. Then again that is my experience and how it is expected to be called. All contact is not a foul and you are not going to have blocks without some expected contact. I would not call a PC foul on a shooter if they bounced off a defender and the defender maintained their basic position.

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Now, any answers to the 2 previous questions would be greatly appreciated. I just want to get it right...

I will admit I did not understand the second question. What do you mean by "Give them the finger and come back and explain?" I do not think I am going to explain much directly to kids in the first place. Or at the very least I am not going out of my way to explain something. If they ask me in a quite and respectful way, then I might go for that.

Peace

Come on JRut, I completely understand! Why must it be sooooooo difficult to get this answer? You act as if you haven't read the post by referee99...
I saw a couple things in HIS post that raised questions.

1. Defender FOULS the shooter (with the body) prior to the block... Do YOU report the foul as a block or push is all that I am trying learn from you or any other knowledgable official.

referee99 second statement that caught my eye was how he explained to the player ON HIS WAY TO THE TABLE by "tapping his (own) chest" as if to say clean block but you got him with the body".

2. Should we report before communicating with players & coaches or is it acceptable to clarify in route to the table??

Gracias'

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Come on JRut, I completely understand! Why must it be sooooooo difficult to get this answer? You act as if you haven't read the post by referee99...
I saw a couple things in HIS post that raised questions.

1. Defender FOULS the shooter (with the body) prior to the block... Do YOU report the foul as a block or push is all that I am trying learn from you or any other knowledgable official.

referee99 second statement that caught my eye was how he explained to the player ON HIS WAY TO THE TABLE by "tapping his (own) chest" as if to say clean block but you got him with the body".

2. Should we report before communicating with players & coaches or is it acceptable to clarify in route to the table??

Gracias'

If you disagree with a foul being called, that is fine. I just do not feel you should call a foul "just because" there was some body contact when players go to the basket. And if you want to learn, then realize that there are officials that will not call this a foul and feel it should not be called a foul. It was the way I was taught a long time ago and the way I have been taught as I have gone to camps and trainings at higher levels. And in my experience I see both good and bad teams that play above or near the rim. If you are calling this a foul every time, then you will be shooting FTs from the moment the ball is tipped off. And I do not know how you could be that technical in any girl's game because every shot involves contact near the basket. The incidental contact rule did not just leave the rulebook either.

Secondly, I am still trying to understand why you feel the need to explain a call you made to a player or coach for that matter before you report to the table.

I tell the table (with a loud enough voice) what was done along with the correct signal. So if I have a push, I say which hand and how they pushed them (e.g. "Push with the right arm in the back") I have been doing this in some form for a season and a half and I cannot recall many coaches complaining what I called even if at first they were adamant about what they thought the call should be.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Do YOU report the foul as a block or push is all that I am trying learn from you or any other knowledgable official.'

Although I'm not in that category, I'll try to answer this anyway. If the shooter was displaced by the defender, it's a push. If the shooter's forward (or sideways, or backwards) motion was stopped by the defender (who did not have LGP), it's a block.

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Although I'm not in that category, I'll try to answer this anyway. If the shooter was displaced by the defender, it's a push. If the shooter's forward (or sideways, or backwards) motion was stopped by the defender (who did not have LGP), it's a block.

JH%&*$#C!!! Thank you Mark, that is all I wanted to know.
I know what a freakin foul is, I just had questions about another posters post.

[referee99]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Although I'm not in that category, I'll try to answer this anyway. If the shooter was displaced by the defender, it's a push. If the shooter's forward (or sideways, or backwards) motion was stopped by the defender (who did not have LGP), it's a block.

A1 drives towards low block...and pulls up. B2 comes from the FT line, contact knocks A1 towards the end line. B2 swats ball up top. Illegal contact occurred. Period. I had a push. Displacement, not impedance.

B2 gives me his best pleading, "I got all ball" face. I tell him "Body" and tap my chest.

If I had the call as trail and was now administering FTs I would certainly consider talking to a player about the illegal contact. As lead moving to new trail I would not return to the 'scene of the crime' to have any such discussion. Move on.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would question why you are calling a foul on the first one. There is always going to be some contact on a blocked shot. If it was clean first, let the other contact go. If the body contact took place first, then you can have a legitimate foul.

Just my take.

Peace

My take is: if the defender had LGP the body contact is ignored. If they did not have LGP or were moving forward toward an airborne shooter, I would call a foul.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Should we give the kid the finger?

No, just the assistant coach.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No, just the assistant coach.

Now anyone with a high school education should know that.

Peace