Wow, Did I just see that!

[jkumpire]

First, I agree that FED signals need to be used, and done in a clear and distinct manner.

However, the FED Rules Committee is wrong when it says: "Officials should be professional in the use of the signals and should not attempt to draw attention to themselves by use of unapproved, emphatic or theatrical signals."

The use of such pejorative language reveals something that I really don't like. FED wants everyone to be an ASA softball umpire, to call everything exactly alike, and do everything exactly alike. And there are times in a basketball game where using an added signal in addition to the FED signal is not being a hot dog, or unprofessional.

For example, the other day I was lead in a 2 man game. A1 is driving down the lane, and B1 sticks his forearm out, and holds him from driving down the lane. The way the players were going nobody on either bench could see the call, or why I called it.

So I come to the reporting area, use one hand for the player number and reported "24 white",then using the exact FED signal "holding." Then I pointed in the direction of play after the foul. Already the defensive coach is up looking at me because he didn't see his player's forearm across the midsection of A1. So I then put my forearm out, motioned it away from my body like a FB ref calling illegal motion, and said "24 held 13 with his forearm on the drive."

B1's coach sat down, didn't say a word. Why? Because I used an "unapproved" signal to communicate what the foul clearly was to the coach. I sold the call using a signal not in the book. He may not like my call, but he knew what it was, and didn't make a scene about it.

And yes, I am an older person, and I have called basketball for a long time. But communication is a key to officiating well, and IMO if you have to use an unorthodox signal once in a while, great.

Being a by the book official on mechanics is what we should strive for, and I practice my mechanics regularly to make sure I give good, crisp signals. But to automatically say that any time an unorthodox signal is used is bad, that is just incorrect.

And to label an official using a signal not in the book as as a show off or trying to bring attention to themselves is to attack their integrity, and is very questionable. This is the mindset that leads to state associations trying to legislate no booing at HS sporting events, or mandating that officials police the post-game handshake after a game.

[referee99]

So, what you did was report the foul using prescribed mechanics, and then answered a coach's question with bonus clarity indication.

I would do the same. This is good officiating.

Also, at the spot of the foul, I'm using prescribed mechanics, but may answer question from player with a gesture. Had a kid make a clean block up top, but contact shooter with his chest. Called a push at the spot, and answered kids question with a tap to the chest (mine) as I go to report.

Originally Posted by referee99

Had a kid make a clean block up top, but contact shooter with his chest. Called a push at the spot, and answered kids question with a tap to the chest (mine) as I go to report.

Couple of questions (for the board):

1. Clean block up top with body contact, should that be reported as a "push" or "block" accompanied by the verbal "BODY" to sell the call?

2. Should we give the kid the finger (STOP it) the wait-a-minute finger, go report then come back to explain?

[Mark Padgett]

Now that I think about it, a lot of my problems started after I used the "hit to the head" signal about 20 times in one game.

[referee99]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Now that I think about it, a lot of my problems started after I used the "hit to the head" signal about 20 times in one game.

forearm trouble after one game with lots of emphatic illegal use of hands calls.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Couple of questions (for the board):

1. Clean block up top with body contact, should that be reported as a "push" or "block" accompanied by the verbal "BODY" to sell the call?

2. Should we give the kid the finger (STOP it) the wait-a-minute finger, go report then come back to explain?

I would question why you are calling a foul on the first one. There is always going to be some contact on a blocked shot. If it was clean first, let the other contact go. If the body contact took place first, then you can have a legitimate foul.

Just my take.

Peace

I concur JRut, let me re-word that so I don't sound like a complete moron

1. Clean block up top with simultaneous body contact that is say, 60/40 or 55/45, should that be reported as a "push" or "block" accompanied by the verbal "BODY" to sell the call?

Now, any answers to the 2 previous questions would be greatly appreciated. I just want to get it right...

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE=Ch1town;559740]I concur JRut, let me re-word that so I don't sound like a complete moron

Originally Posted by Ch1town

1. Clean block up top with simultaneous body contact that is say, 60/40 or 55/45, should that be reported as a "push" or "block" accompanied by the verbal "BODY" to sell the call?

I would still make the case that the body contact would have to come first to have a foul. Then again that is my experience and how it is expected to be called. All contact is not a foul and you are not going to have blocks without some expected contact. I would not call a PC foul on a shooter if they bounced off a defender and the defender maintained their basic position.

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Now, any answers to the 2 previous questions would be greatly appreciated. I just want to get it right...

I will admit I did not understand the second question. What do you mean by "Give them the finger and come back and explain?" I do not think I am going to explain much directly to kids in the first place. Or at the very least I am not going out of my way to explain something. If they ask me in a quite and respectful way, then I might go for that.

Peace

Come on JRut, I completely understand! Why must it be sooooooo difficult to get this answer? You act as if you haven't read the post by referee99...
I saw a couple things in HIS post that raised questions.

1. Defender FOULS the shooter (with the body) prior to the block... Do YOU report the foul as a block or push is all that I am trying learn from you or any other knowledgable official.

referee99 second statement that caught my eye was how he explained to the player ON HIS WAY TO THE TABLE by "tapping his (own) chest" as if to say clean block but you got him with the body".

2. Should we report before communicating with players & coaches or is it acceptable to clarify in route to the table??

Gracias'

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would question why you are calling a foul on the first one. There is always going to be some contact on a blocked shot. If it was clean first, let the other contact go. If the body contact took place first, then you can have a legitimate foul.

Just my take.

Peace

My take is: if the defender had LGP the body contact is ignored. If they did not have LGP or were moving forward toward an airborne shooter, I would call a foul.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Should we give the kid the finger?

No, just the assistant coach.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No, just the assistant coach.

Now anyone with a high school education should know that.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you do not know what the signal is (and this is hard to understand), how are you so sure that you know what a foul is? The foul is whatever you want it to be based on the action. There is no "it must be this way or else" foul signal.

Excellent, but you really could've said THAT 16 posts & a whole page ago

Man it's almost been a year since we got down like this, but here we go again. And this time I just asked a question... oh wait a minute, that's what I did before too

This is what raised my concerns:

Originally Posted by referee99

Also, at the spot of the foul, I'm using prescribed mechanics,
but may answer question from player with a gesture. Had a kid make a
clean block up top, but contact shooter with his chest.
Called a push at the spot, and
answered kids question with a tap to the chest (mine)
as I go to report.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Excellent, but you really could've said THAT 16 posts & a whole page ago

Man it's almost been a year since we got down like this, but here we go again. And this time I just asked a question... oh wait a minute, that's what I did before too

This is what raised my concerns:

And you could have known that already, but then again this is another one of your huffy and puffy moments, which you tend to get when someone does not adhere to your demands.

You are supposed to be a veteran and you do not know what signal to give on a foul? Even if you do not know what signal to give, no one really cares. The only people that will likely care is the coach and even then they will complain no matter what you do if they do not respect you or if they feel you are not experienced. It is clear by reading many threads here recently, if you have been around a long time you can signal damn (even the wrong signals) near anything and they will still get games and still work where they want to. Is it that hard to know this already?

Peace

3rd year certified is NOT a vet in these parts... I'm in CO not SoCal

{This is where I get off} you sir may have the last word, life is too short.

Anybody with half-way decent reading/writing skills can see where the problem lies.