Another T or No T situation
 

GV game and I am in the stands after completing my game. Three person crew working two closely matched teams and the home team has seen its lead in the 4th quarter evaporate from 10pts to 5pts.

On an end-line throw-in for the visitors and in the vistors FC, center official (across the court from the team benches) calls a pushing foul on the visitors shortly after the ball becomes live, but before the throw-in is completed. Visitors coach becomes visibly upset with the call and starts a rant at the calling official. He does not use profanty or make it personal, he is just upset with the call. Coach then calls a full time-out and spends the entire 60 seconds staring at the calling official who is now on the blocks at the far end of the court. He never even looks at his team, but just keeps up the drop dead stare. As the time-out is ending, new trail gets with the coach and tells him the call is not going to change so lets just play and get by it. ( I later learn the crew has pre-gamed as much tolorance as possible for the coaches and not to go looking for trouble.)

Game continues and visitors eventully win by 3.

In the officials room after the game, the official who made the foul call and was the object of the stare-down is upset that neither of his partners T'ed the coach for the obvious stare down, and I get a call from one of the partners after the game for my take on it, because he knows I had the best view from the stands.

I told him, in my opinion, the coach made himself look like an #ss to everybody in the stands who knew anything about basketball and he didn't completely earn the T because he wasn't personal, persistant, or profane in voice once the initial rant was over. He just looked like a little bully trying to intimidate someone, looking stupid, and giving up a time-out in a close game to do it.

I also told him I would present the senerio to you guys for your opinions. I know it would mean more if you were there, but would an obvious stare-down such as this cause you to give the automatic T?

I do not assess a technical foul here. Seriously, you're asking if you can T up a coach for looking at you funny. I tend to have a short fuse when it comes to keeping coaches under control, but even I can't throw down here.

IMO, kudos to the new trail for going to the coach and suggesting he lose the attitude--that is exactly how the situation should have been dealt with.

Think how much more spectacular it would have been if the partner had done this DURING the time-out staredown, instead of waiting for the time-out to end!

The staree could blown the coach a kiss.

I had it happen once - smiled and waved at the coach. He probably thought I was stupid but he turned back to his players and started coaching again.

^^^^^^^^^
My thoughts exactly

Whack.

No way you T there. Get a thicker skin or you won't last long. Also to complain that his partners didn't do his dirty work for him is pretty funny.

Staring never hurts anyone, unless you let it affect you.

Since it's the holiday season... give the gift that keeps on giving (or something like that)...:D

When it doubt, whack! ;)

You could apply a version of the "Meese Gambit": if the coach didn't deserve this particular T, he probably did something recently that deserved one and didn't get it. ;)

This is a high school game and in your pre-game meeting with the coaches and captains you told them you expected good sportsmanship throughout the evening. No way that is good sportsmanship and sets a bad example for high school kids-- technical foul after just a few seconds of staring. Easy decision as far as I'm concerned.

I recall several years ago an official (Ron Garretson I think) in an NBA game calling a T on a player for exactly this reason. I could hear the official saying the player was trying to intimidate him.

Personally, if you don't T the initial rant, the stare doesn't get the T either.

Furthermore, if you can't take care of business yourself, don't blame your partners for not doing it. Sounds to me like this was his T to get, not his partners'.

There is a middle ground here. One of the other officials could walk over and get the coach back into his huddle. Of course, by walking over there, it's pretty hard to whack him because it looks like you're baiting him at that point, but it's something I would be willing to risk if I knew the coach and if I had no intention of whacking him for the stare anyway.

I have also, when the target of "the stare" found a reason to turn and walk from the block and tie a shoe or get a towel to clean up an imaginary wet spot on the floor.

I have whacked in this situation. I do think it's unsportsmanlike and is showing up the official, but I don't necessarily think the technical is the best course of action for the game.

As for the official being angry at his partners -- if he wanted a technical called HE should've called it! This isn't like a second technical where it's nice if a different official gets it. This is more like expecting a partner to do your dirty work for you.

I don't have a technical in this situation. There are coaches around these parts who do the same, they'll stare at the officials while berating their team in the huddle. My high school coach did the same, and he never got a T for it. It's a thick skin thing; if it isn't verbally directed at me, my partner, or someone from the other team, I'm going to ignore it and do a redirect like the partner in the OP did if possible.

So if he gives the two arm wave at you or another such gesture you'll ignore cause it wasn't verbal?

partners working together
 

This is the best course of action of all stated.

but this could fall under any of the following with regard to issuing a technical foul;
a. Disrespectfully addressing an official.
b. Attempting to influence an official's decision.
e. Objecting to an official's decision by rising from the bench or using gestures.
f. Inciting undesirable crowd reactions.

As for a partner issuing the technical, I can agree with that, -the offical made the call the coach didn't like, If wants to play games let one of the partners get him for being an A$$, The perception is bad,
However since he didn't Whack him he really can not say too much to his partners.

I say no technical. Just because a coach wants to use a timeout to stare-down an officials, in a game that close, is his problem. He is now not using his and his teams’ time wisely.

The official who was the subject of the stare-down should have looked away. Contrary to popular belief, just as the official seemed intimidated the coach may have felt the official was trying to intimidate him as well by staring. As long as the official kept staring at the coach he continued to stare back and if the official thinks about it, in retrospect he was doing the same thing he felt the coach should have received a "T" for.

Remember as officials we have a lot of authority (some say power) when we are on the court and we must convey the proper message. We don’t want coaches or players to feel we are intimidating and by staring them down may convey the wrong message as if we are trying to bait them into doing or saying something.

These are two completely different descriptions of the event. nowhere did it say the Referee was staring the coach down too!

A few years ago I would have whacked this guy just on principle.

Now it would be a result of the call, his initial display plus this display that would determine the result of this encounter.
However I am not going to back down from the guy, I'm not going to blow him a kiss either. I am going to do the things, I am supposed to do durring the time out. But I wouldn't be shy about doing either.
I would hope that my partner(s) handled it so I didn't have to. However that turns out.

What if the guy stares you down on two TO's in a row that are minutes apart?

I have an assignor that wants the officials to face each other during timeouts for this very reason.

Oh great. Now I've got to worry about whether the R is going to be staring me down for calls he didn't like? Or that my U is going to start feeling intimidated or insecure because I was staring at him? Don't even get me started on the kiss blowing thing. :eek:

Somebody is goiing to Whack him at that point!

I would be doing everything in my power to keep from busting out laughing or trying to crack them up most of the time.

How does that work during 3-person?

Somebody needs to have a talk with this guy about acting like an adult and his job of coaching his team.

Does a "T" improve the game?
 

There are many factors that weigh in..... What's the coach's conduct been up to this point? What is his reputation? etc...

Its kind of a 2 against one thing :D

A staredown means nothing except for simple minded people who do it. Leave it alone. If he wants to waste his time and look like a fool, that's his problem. I penalize words and gestures when appropriate, not thoughts.

I Didn't Know Alice Was An Official ...
 

It must look like the beginning of the "Brady Bunch".

Must be why my U1 tonight was constantly muttering, "Marsh, Marsha, Marsha."

I think Rocky's approach might be the best one. In my younger days, I would have T'd him up quick, but now I would probably tolerate a little more. If he was staring at me I might be the one to approach him during the timeout. If I was feeling playful, I might have moved to the other end of the court just to see if he would turn his body so his stare would follow me. I would love for something like this to happen at the beginning of a game. In that case, virtually all communication with that coach is over. Approachability is a two-way street and the stare is not appropriate for good communication. I looked that up. :D

I agree with you on this, but a stare could definitely be considered a gesture.

"A staredown means nothing" (Texas Aggie)

Please explain what you mean by "nothing".

For me not a nanogram of sportsmanship. Simplest answer "Whack" (NevadaRef).

Knows nothing about College, Pros and what their values are. Feds values and code of ethics are quite clear. Coach not living up to them. Have a T and sit down for the rest of the game. Coach has to be accountable for his unsporting behaviour (that is the issue at the moment); officials have to deal with it at this moment.

If your association does not want T's for this behaviour, then shame on them. Otherwise, a T is warrated.

Ron

What part of "nothing" is unclear?

Do you also call a T when the coach alleges someone stepped out of bounds and they didn't? That's even worse sportsmanship.

The rule doesn't say, "when he's being a poor sport, give him a T."

My advice: don't go looking for T's. Don't run from the ones that are there, but unless you feel his actions are causing you to lose some control of the game (and staring isn't causing that), then it often isn't needed. Obviously, there are always exceptions.

I agree with this, and you can always say, "coach, if you are going to act like that, we are done talking and any leeway you were getting is now gone."

We have a doer and a receiver.

I think the doer means something by his action. If in doing this action it is unsportsmanlike, an official is required to give him a T.

I think you mean nothing based on how the receiver reacts to the action or how you would respond. You have a philosophy about this. But is this the philosophy of the rules. If it is no T but if isn't then a T.

On a communicaton level (here it is non-verbal), the act of staring has some meaning. A meaning is imparted. Thus, how could it be nothing. I do not think the coach did what he did cause he wanted to send a "nothing" message. I do not believe in this situation we are in the proverbially "sticks and stones will break my bones, words can't hurt me" situation. :o

So it is unclear to me what nothing means to you. All I am asking is for you to explain, elucidate how you use the tern nothing in your sentence.

Is the staring unsportsmanlike or not. If it is, a T is needed. If not, not T.

It is that simple.

From the great philospher Mr. Barney Fife "NIP IT"
 

No body is going looking for the T, but this one is teetering on the brink, it is not a coach being a poor sport - He is trying to show you up

- he is denegrating the quality of your game, and his actions are unsportsman like and if not dealt with somehow right now, it will lead to problems down the road.

Example, next time out, he stands there and does the same thing? What are you going to do about then? You set the example by not dealing with it immediately

- "Nip it in the bud!!"

One of the 2 or 3 of you needs do deal with the coach, either suggest that the course of action he has chosen is not the best and if continued there will be negative consequences, or let him have it, this needs to be done immediately not at the end of the time out.

Suggested communication,
Help me out here coach I really do not want to see you get a T here, empathy, but if you continue to show up my partner, explaination of why what the coach is doing will result in cosequences, you'll leave us with no choice but to issue the technical, the consequences, So you go back to coaching your team, option to avoid negative consequences and the game continues without an incident.

The coach moves on or gets Whacked.

"It is definitely no fun when that iron door clangs shut on you."
 

"No more peanut butter and jelly sandwiches".