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-   -   Help on out-of-bounds play (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50235-help-out-bounds-play.html)

jsblanton Mon Dec 08, 2008 06:47pm
Help on out-of-bounds play
 
This season I have had at least one time during every game that a the ball comes from my partners primary but goes out on my sideline. I don't know who touched it last so I ask him for help. He tells me what he saw and we play on.
I guess what I want to know is, is once a game to many times for this to be happening to me? I have really tried to work on watching my primary but I feel I am missing little things elsewhere on the floor that I shouldn't be. :confused:

JugglingReferee Mon Dec 08, 2008 06:55pm
I get 4-5 of these per season, which represents about 100 games.

jdw3018 Mon Dec 08, 2008 07:21pm
Two thoughts:

1. These plays seem to come in bunches for me. I had one tonight. I fully expect to have another one or two in the next couple games. Just happens.

2. Don't be afraid to ask for it - if the ball comes from a partner's primary and you're doing your job of officiating hard in your primary, then you won't always (and shouldn't, many times) have any idea who caused the ball to go OOB.

BillyMac Mon Dec 08, 2008 09:09pm
First, And Foremost, Blow The Whistle To Stop The Clock ...
 
From my pregame:

Out-Of-Bounds Help
For out-of-bounds help, let's get it right. Come together for a change if needed. If I have no idea and I look to you for help, just give a directional signal. No need to come to me. Just point. If I signal but I get it wrong, then blow the whistle and come to me. Tell me what you saw and let me decide if I’m going to change it.

jdmara Mon Dec 08, 2008 09:33pm
always a pregame topic. I agree with BillyMac on this one

-Josh

Adam Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:19pm
It's all luck of the draw on this play.

OHBBREF Tue Dec 09, 2008 09:04am
It happens to everyone ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 556493)
I get 4-5 of these per season, which represents about 100 games.
I have been involved in 5 of these in college games already this year (I hope that is the end) several in one game.
However it is completely dependant on the situation, they are all different.
stop the clock ask for help and get it right.
that is the most important thing.

mj Tue Dec 09, 2008 09:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 556526)
From my pregame:

Out-Of-Bounds Help
For out-of-bounds help, let's get it right. Come together for a change if needed. If I have no idea and I look to you for help, just give a directional signal. No need to come to me. Just point. If I signal but I get it wrong, then blow the whistle and come to me. Tell me what you saw and let me decide if I’m going to change it.
Agree with the above also. Or sometimes if I have no idea, I'll glance at my partner and he'll turn and run to the other end. We are then heading the other way...

Smitty Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:09pm
If this is happening mainly when you are lead, try and stand deeper off the baseline so you have a bigger peripheral view of the court. While that won't eliminate all of these occurrences, it may help you reduce the amount you miss.

Ch1town Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 556673)
If this is happening mainly when you are lead, try and stand deeper off the baseline so you have a bigger peripheral view of the court.
Last time I did that one of the cheerleaders invited me to an "after party":cool:

JugglingReferee Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018 (Post 556497)
Two thoughts:

1. These plays seem to come in bunches for me. I had one tonight. I fully expect to have another one or two in the next couple games. Just happens.

2. Don't be afraid to ask for it - if the ball comes from a partner's primary and you're doing your job of officiating hard in your primary, then you won't always (and shouldn't, many times) have any idea who caused the ball to go OOB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 556607)
I have been involved in 5 of these in college games already this year (I hope that is the end) several in one game.
However it is completely dependant on the situation, they are all different.
stop the clock ask for help and get it right. That is the most important thing.
They come in bunches with me too, as do many others things. There was a thread a bit back about double fouls. Not 2 days after that thread, I had a DF. Then, I called another one this past Saturday night in a V tournament final.

Play: I'm L, and big man A1 in the post closest to me pivots and plants his elbow into B2's chest. But B1 had reached in and ending up grabbing A1's other arm. I saw both happen, and honestly couldn't tell you which "happened first", as they were that close to each other along the timeline. So I went with another double foul. Not one DF since I can remember and two in the past 2 weeks. :rolleyes:

Raymond Tue Dec 09, 2008 03:28pm
I tell my partner(s) in pre-game that I'm not shy about asking for help. I probably average over the season 1 every 2 games but may have 2-3 in one game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 556684)
They come in bunches with me too, as do many others things. There was a thread a bit back about double fouls. Not 2 days after that thread, I had a DF. Then, I called another one this past Saturday night in a V tournament final.
There were threads recently about players running OOB (which I have not read) and automatic T's for players slamming the ball. Then last night we had a player bounce the ball hard with one hand and we didn't call a T. I say something to the player and his coach immediately put a sub in for him.

Then I had player run OOB along the baseline. At first I just said to get back on the court. But he didn't and I looked up and they were running a play for him. So I blew my whistle just as he got the ball.

jsblanton Tue Dec 09, 2008 08:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 556678)
Last time I did that one of the cheerleaders invited me to an "after party":cool:
Hope it was a college game!!!:D

mick Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 556526)
From my pregame:

Out-Of-Bounds Help
For out-of-bounds help, let's get it right. Come together for a change if needed. If I have no idea and I look to you for help, just give a directional signal. No need to come to me. Just point. If I signal but I get it wrong, then blow the whistle and come to me. Tell me what you saw and let me decide if I’m going to change it.
If I come to you for help and you don't know, give me *Thumbs up*.

BillyMac Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:39pm
How About Thumbs Down For An Assistant Coach Sacrifice ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick (Post 556847)
If I come to you for help and you don't know, give me *Thumbs up*.
Thanks. I will add this to my pregame.

jdmara Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick (Post 556847)
If I come to you for help and you don't know, give me *Thumbs up*.
Good call Mick

Adam Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick (Post 556847)
If I come to you for help and you don't know, give me *Thumbs up*.
Agree, I think it looks horrible to go for help, not get it, and then make a decision. It looks like you're guessing.

OHBBREF Wed Dec 10, 2008 08:04am
Pre-game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick (Post 556847)
If I come to you for help and you don't know, give me *Thumbs up*.
I do and I hope that we all talk about this in pre-game, and we all mention that we are not shy about asking for help if we need it.

But I do not agree with the if you do not know give me the Thumbs up, what if your third has the only real view of the play?

So now you could have a scenario with the lead not knowing who last touched the ball so he looks to the trail who gives the thumbs up and you want to go alternating posession but the C steps in and gives infromation that says it is team A's ball.

We use the If you do not know lets get together and talk about it.
that way there is no visual signal that can get you in trouble later.
just my preference.

mick Wed Dec 10, 2008 08:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 556944)
I do and I hope that we all talk about this in pre-game, and we all mention that we are not shy about asking for help if we need it.

But I do not agree with the if you do not know give me the Thumbs up, what if your third has the only real view of the play?

So now you could have a scenario with the lead not knowing who last touched the ball so he looks to the trail who gives the thumbs up and you want to go alternating posession but the C steps in and gives infromation that says it is team A's ball.

We use the If you do not know lets get together and talk about it.
that way there is no visual signal that can get you in trouble later.
just my preference.
In your sitch, when Trail gives *Thumbs up*, you point to [or look to] Center for help and Center gives direction.

Scrapper1 Wed Dec 10, 2008 08:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick (Post 556847)
If I come to you for help and you don't know, give me *Thumbs up*.
Strongly disagree. If you give the thumbs-up, then we're stuck with it. I may have an idea and be looking to see if you have a tip. If you give the thumbs-up, then my information (even if it's not 100%) goes out the window.

If you don't know, then that's all I need to know. I can then use the information I have, or I can go with the held ball myself.

mick Wed Dec 10, 2008 08:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 556949)
Strongly disagree. If you give the thumbs-up, then we're stuck with it. I may have an idea and be looking to see if you have a tip. If you give the thumbs-up, then my information (even if it's not 100%) goes out the window.

If you don't know, then that's all I need to know. I can then use the information I have, or I can go with the held ball myself.
Just ask if partner saw a tip.

Scrapper1 Wed Dec 10, 2008 08:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick (Post 556950)
Just ask if partner saw a tip.
Just don't give the thumbs-up.

Potato, potahto.

Juulie Downs Wed Dec 10, 2008 04:39pm
I think the frequency of this depends on the types of plays the teams are running. If there's a lot of passing, there's a greatly increased chance of an errant pass or a defensive tip toward the oob area. Also, a smothering defense with an aim to steal increases the chance of a wild flying oob ball, and also makes it harder for you to see who touched it last. Never be afraid to ask for help. If you pre-game properly, it looks very controlled and strong. Use gestures (don't yell), and announce the outcome firmly, put the ball in and go!!

Raymond Wed Dec 10, 2008 05:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juulie Downs (Post 557125)
...Use gestures (don't yell), and announce the outcome firmly, put the ball in and go!!
I hope you don't mean to use gestures when asking for help. I specifically pre-game to verbally ask for help. I was actually dinged once for not asking for help loud enough.


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