What "Attributes"?
 

This has always been puzzling, and I'd appreciate the understanding you can instill in me regarding 4-19-9: "A false double foul is a situation in which . . . at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent."

What is meant by "attributes"? What so-called "attributes" of a double foul one would expect to be absent?

I've always been told to have good "game management" and "preventative officiating" to make sure I don't get in the situation of having that lovely "false double foul". ;)

Substitute "criteria" or "requirements" for "attributes" and it might help.

The double foul attributes are that they are both "personal" fouls or both "technical" fouls.

In a false double foul, one is a personal and the other is a technical. The fouls still occur at approximately the same time but the first foul causes the ball to become dead and the clock to stop. The second foul is a dead ball foul and possibly resulting in a technical. Thus one personal and one technical.

A double foul must have all of the following attributes:

1) Both personal or both technical
2) By opponents against each other
3) Approximately at the same time

If any of those is missing, it's a false double foul.

The most common usual example is the time delay.

Actually....
 

As Bob pointed out there are more attributes to a false double than just the type of foul. Both fouls can be personal or technical and still be a false double. A1 is an airborne shooter and is fouled by B1. Before returning to the floor A1 fouls B2. This is a false double foul.

would the infamous "blarge" be a false double foul?

The blarge is an actual double foul.

You beat me to it
 

You are correct that it is a double foul, but it is only because the officials didn't follow proper mechanics and this is the only way the Fed has for cleaning it up. If the two officials get together and can't agree on what the correct call is, we are told to go with a double foul. Had one of the officials yielded to the other, there would be no need for a double foul because there would be no blarge.

Right. If both officials signal, and we have a blarge, it's a double foul. If one yields and doesn't signal, then it's not a double foul because we have only one foul. :D

By the time they would "get together" it's generally too late, unless they've both "yielded". But if one yields right away, the other has the call. No getting together necessary. If neither yields and both go straight to the prelim, you have your blarge now. Too late, by rule, to yield.

I've had too many false doubles to agree with this.

IMO people have this situ more than they know. The false double foul title scarespeople and they think somehow it should be more difficult to administer.

Agreed, but it usually amounts to B1 fouling A1 and A1 pushing back in retaliation after the whistle. Or A1 popping off afterwards with magic words.

how is it administered? shots (if warranted) in order of foul occurrences? than POI?

Another one. B1 hold A1. A1 is in the bonus and hits both free throws. while B1 is making the throw-in, A1 pushes B2 jockying for position.

False doubles are administered in order, that's it. No POI.

Take my example above.
A1 gets his free throws (foul 1).
Then, B gets two free throws and the ball (foul2).

Another example would be if A1 (the shooter) fouls B1 (on the lane) during the rebounding action of the free throw. Assuming it's during the first free throw of a one-and-one, you would shoot the 2nd (assuming A1 made the first one) with the lane cleared, then either proceed to your throwin for B or your free throws for B1 with the lane occupied if B is in the bonus.

Do I have this one right?

A1 has the ball and fouled fouled by B1 while dribbling (called by L). Team A is in the bonus. At the same time A2 sets an illegal screen on B2 (called by C). Both whistles happen at the same time.

My ruling; simultaneous foul, no shots, POI, Team A gets throwin closest to A1's position when fouled.

Part 2: Does each official report their own foul?

yup yup yup

If in the above case, A1 was an airborne shooter and was airborne when C's whistle blew and was fouled by B1 while still in the air but after C's whistle could it become a false double foul?

If you believe that, you don't know what a false double foul really is.

They happen regularly...perhaps in a majority of games....even multiple times in some games.

I think you meant to type "the second foul occurs before the clock is restarted"?

Yeah that too. It's hard to get it all in there when you keep getting interrupted by work. I wish they would leave me alone.

Bob has already set the record straight on the attributes. So as usual, I'll listen to Bob.

Am I Getting Closer?
 

Thank you for your clarifications in this thread! I just had an "ah-ha" moment, based on the responses above.
Seems the most distinctive thing about a false double foul is "what happens next". After reporting, the play is resumed by whatever follows after the penalty for each foul is administered according to order in which they each occured. Whereas, after a double foul, the play is resumed, after reporting the fouls, at the point of interruption.
Seems that "what happens next" is the most important thing about disguishing between a double foul and a false double foul. Is that an accurate conclusion?

If it helps you, then it's accurate. Personally, I wouldn't worry about "false double fouls". You know how to handle two fouls, and that's all a false double foul is.

Bob's right. All you need to remember is that it's not a double.

Freddy, just curious. Do you ever feel that when making a call, your mechanics make you look like you're doing the "Freddy"? That would be cool.

http://www.bouldercool.com/freddie.jpg

Mark "American Bandstand" Padgett
 

Mark Padgett's inquiry: "Do you ever feel that when making a call, your mechanics make you look like you're doing the "Freddy"? That would be cool."

That would depend whether the gym wants Freddy Mercury, Freddy Fender, or just "The Freddy." I match the mechanics to the crowd. By the way, that's me in your pic, on the bass.