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-   -   Foul on jump ball to start game (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50145-foul-jump-ball-start-game.html)

SNIPERBBB Mon Dec 07, 2020 08:49am

They'd be players at that point. For a indirect T to a Coach the player would have to be bench personnel.

Raymond Mon Dec 07, 2020 08:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1040434)
They'd be players at that point. For a indirect T to a Coach the player would have to be bench personnel.

At what point do team members become players prior to the ball becoming live for the opening tip. No access to any rule books at the moment, but I don't ever remember reading what the line of demarcation is.

SNIPERBBB Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:04am

It's not during intermission for the purposes of penalizing behavior. So the people on the court have to be players, excepting illegal substitutes.

Nevadaref Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1040435)
At what point do team members become players prior to the ball becoming live for the opening tip. No access to any rule books at the moment, but I don't ever remember reading what the line of demarcation is.

Once the team members enter the court for the ensuing jumpball.

Clearly, all team members are bench personnel during pregame warm-ups, but we have some indicators that warmups have ended: the clock winds down, a horn sounds, the team members remove warmup garb such as shooting shirts, pants, etc., the teams usually go to their respective benches and huddle, the individuals marked as starters take the court. At this point we have ten players on the court, even though the ball has yet to become live to start the game.


PS This must be on some review exam because I’ve had two other people contact me about this same situation this Fall. I’m curious where Freddy saw the question.

SNIPERBBB Mon Dec 07, 2020 01:03pm

Another thing is we can have violations occur prior to the actual toss as well.

BillyMac Mon Dec 07, 2020 02:27pm

Jump For My Love (The Pointer Sisters, 1984) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1040440)
Another thing is we can have violations occur prior to the actual toss as well.

6-3-2: When the official is ready and until the ball is tossed, nonjumpers shall not:
a. Move onto the center restraining circle.
b. Change position around the center restraining circle.


6.3.2 SITUATION: The referee is ready to toss the ball to start the game. (a) A1 who was on the center restraining circle backs off; (b) B1 moves onto the restraining circle into an unoccupied spot; (c) B2 moves off the circle and goes behind A2 and is within 3 feet of the circle; or (d) B3 moves off the circle about 5 feet and moves around behind A3 and A4 who are occupying spaces on the circle. RULING: Legal in (a) and (d), but a violation in both (b) and (c). Moving off the restraining circle in (a), and around the circle when more than 3 feet away as in (d), is permissible. It is a violation to move onto the circle as in (b), until the ball leaves the official’s hand, or into an occupied space as in (c), until the ball is touched. The violation by B results in a throw-in for Team A. (4-3)

How does one know that the tossing official is ready?

When he sounds his or her whistle?

BillyMac Mon Dec 07, 2020 02:29pm

Might As Well Jump (Van Halen, 1983) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1040438)
Once the team members enter the court for the ensuing jumpball. Clearly, all team members are bench personnel during pregame warm-ups, but we have some indicators that warmups have ended: the clock winds down, a horn sounds, the team members remove warmup garb such as shooting shirts, pants, etc., the teams usually go to their respective benches and huddle, the individuals marked as starters take the court. At this point we have ten players on the court, even though the ball has yet to become live to start the game.

4-34-1: A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court at any given time, except intermission.

Freddy Mon Dec 07, 2020 03:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1040438)
. . . where Freddy saw the question.

My specific question was a further application of a rules question that was asked on a state rules exam. This question came up in further discussion on the original question.
It's just a situation I had never confronted before and never investigated. I thought maybe it would be included in the past NFHS interpretations somewhere but it was not.

BillyMac Mon Dec 07, 2020 06:38pm

Timeout Or Intermission ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1040437)
It's not during intermission or a timeout ...

Timeouts? Aren't the five team members players during a timeout while everybody is bench personnel during an intermission?

SNIPERBBB Mon Dec 07, 2020 07:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1040458)
Timeouts? Aren't the five team members players during a timeout while everybody is bench personnel during an intermission?

Got ahead of myself.


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