Tights
 

Just had a game where a team not from our normal area has a Big 10 D1 commit who wears full length leg tights to keep his legs warm under his shorts. We noticed it during warm ups and notified the coach, who then produced a medical excuse. We let him play with them but researched it afterwards:

Rule 3-5-6 NFHS says that compression shorts/tights must be the same solid color as the predominant color of the pants and the length must be above the knee.

Should a medical excuse trump the rule? Our association is contacting the state office for clarification, and the officials I've talked to have mixed opinions. If you let him play with them, he is in violation of the rule; if you make him take them off and he gets a pulled muscle are we legally liable since he had a medical excuse?

Further, his team was home so the tights should have been white - but were actually black. The white tights would have stood out more and made a larger spectical.

Any suggestions? :confused:

My Name Is Sue, How Do You Do ...
 

There is a third choice that you failed to mention. Who says that you have to make him take them off? If it is decided that due to the color, or the length of the tights, that this is illegal equipment, even with the signed medical excuse, then just inform the coach that he can't play with the tights. I would never tell a player that he, or she, has to remove illegal equipment, i.e. earrings, jewelry, etc., because, by rule, they don't have to, unless they want to play. Semantics? Yes. Legal liability? Hopefully no.

Inquiring minds want to know ???
 

No signed medical note is needed according to NFHS 3-5-6, but the tights worn by the player in question must be white, to match the predominate color of the shorts, and must not extend below the knee.

However, your question about the medical note "trumping" NFHS 3-5-6 is a good one. Does the signed note allow any length, or any color? Or does the signed note just allow a longer length, but the color part of the rule still applies? Are these decisions that should be made by game offcials at the site, or should they be handled by the state association?

"Talk amongst yourselves". I've given "you a topic".

When my daughter played, there was a girl on another team that got an exception from the state office so that she could wear tights. Her reason was religious, she was Muslim and didn't want to expose her skin. There was a girl at my daughter's school that did the same thing, but it was for cheerleading, not basketball. I expect the rules aren't the same there.

Give Me That Old Time Religion ...
 

I'm glad that this deeply religious young lady was allowed to play. However, I can't find any NFHS rule, that would allow tights below the knee for a religious reason. There is a rule, 3-5-3 Exception b, that covers, no pun intended, head coverings for religious reasons, and a rule, 3-5-7, that covers religious medals, but I can't find one for tights. She could have, by rule, just worn long pants.

No tights period. End of story.
No medical excuse, no religious excuse can alter that rule. The case play is very clear on that. The player can wear pants if he/she wishes.

3.5.6 SITUATION B:

While Nevada is right about the rule, go with what your state says. My state, for example, is not willing to fight this battle with religion, and we are merely to report the issue to the state when a player claims religious reasons for covering their legs.

- different topic- leg pads?I haven't seen anyone use it but my friend said a few rec players were and I think saw Wade of the Heat wearing these type of leg pads around the thigh. Maybe not Wade but I've seen at least one NBA player wear them. I didn't think they would be legal in HS or if there is even a rule yet for them.

I have seen a player wear regular length compression shorts and then extremely long sock that went well above the knees. Same effect as tights but apparently legal.

Welcome To the Jungle, Opps, I Mean Welcome To the Forum ...
 

Welcome newbie. You must be a Superman fan. "Yes, it's Superman, strange visitor from another planet, with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men! Superman, who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel with his bare hands, and who, disguised as Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper, fights a never-ending battle for truth, justice and the American way!"

I love quotes, especially those from popular culture, like movies, and television. Also, note my signature. This is my new "thing", since I gave up posting images. So far, nobody has complained. I'm sure that the honeymoon, and the novelty, will end soon, an intervention will take place, and I will be encouraged to head in another direction. My fellow Forum members are always looking out for my best interests.

No Im not a superman fan, just an official who was told about this sight and the good officiating knowledge. Are there others?

"Let's Call The Whole Thing Off", Or Not ...
 

NFHS Forum: Basketball

The NFHS forum is a little more serious, and up until recently, was not anywhere near as active as the Official Forum. Not quite, "Apples and oranges", more like, "Tomato, tomato", or, "Potato, potato". Oh. Wait. That doesn't work with a keyboard. I keep forgetting that.

My Client Is Very Demanding, And I Want to Keep My Soul ...
 

NFHS 3-5-2-d Guards, casts, braces and compression sleeves must meet the following guidelines: d. Must be worn for medical reasons.

I agree that there is no way that tights can be worn for religious reason, as 3.5.6.b clearly, and specifically, points out (Nice citation Nevadaref), however, the case play does not refer to a medical reason, just a religious reason.

Could 3-5-2-d allow tights, or compression sleeves, of any color, and/or, any length, for a documented medical reason? I say no, but I'm playing Devil's advocate here, and my client would like to know if there are further citations beyond 3-5-6 that would specifically not allow tights/compression sleeves, of any length, and/or color, for documented medical reasons?

"Don't Call Me Chief!" ...
 

Then, why the Caesar's Ghost username? In the "Adventures of Superman" television series, Perry White, Clark Kent's editor, would often exclaim, "Great Caesar's Ghost!".

My favorite quote started each episode, "Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's Superman!"

No. Tights are not compression sleeves.

You mean like x-ray vision?

http://www.wahlau.net/wp-content/upl...loistop460.jpg

"The Devil Made Me Do It" ...
 

My client concurs. Thanks.

The state responds
 

State office came back and said the we need to examine the Dr's excuse and deternine if it is medically necessary. If so, he can play. So I guess we all need to go to medical school.

Tonight in the championship game, his equipment manager had too much... ummm..."celebration" from the Alabama/Auburn game and left the excuse back at the school. No excuse/no tights. He ended up with 21 point including the game winning 3 with time running out. Just think about what he'd have done with the tights!:D

I don't know what state you are in, but the folks in your office don't have a clue about proper rules enforcement. :(

I do applaud your efforts to do it right. :)

Whats it to you? I came here to discuss officiating -specifically the one question I had - not discuss some tv show drom 50 years ago. If its somehow an illegal name I'll change it.

While I agree that Nevadaref has posted the correct interp and that tights are not allowed for any reason, I think this is a pretty silly rule. As someone else pointed out, legal compression shorts and very tall socks accomplish the exact same thing and are perfectly legal. So what's the big deal about tights? Just say they have to be the same color as the shorts with no logo or adornment. Dumb to outlaw them.

Dude, relax. He's making conversation. Curiosity. It's an unusual name with a fairly well-known origin, yet you say you're not using it for that reason. Isn't it normal to wonder (and polite conversation to ask) why, then, you use it?

That's it. Nothing more. If it's deeply personal, you don't need to answer.

I'm Glad He Wasn't Here During My Image Posting Phase ...
 

Thanks Scrapper1. I don't know if you know this, or not, but Caesar's Ghost is a moderator in training, and is practicing discouraging offtopic posts on the Forum. And, boy, did his most recent post scare the hell out of me. I might not ever post an off topic comment again. Wait until Caesar's Ghost runs into Mark Padgett. Things will really hit the fan then.

I agree with you on the rule, but....

My state is one that frankly doesn't want to get into a pissing match with doctors on medical necessity. We were told just to make sure the note wasn't from his dentist or chiropractor; not to read it and decide if we agree with the doctor's diagnosis and treatment.

Doctor BrianMac ...
 

My son will be getting his PhD in Sociology. I hope that you would accept a note from him, after he graduates. He has put a lot of hard work into this, so you have to accept his note.

BrainMac? Nope, sorry. But I'd accept a note from Mac Taylor.

If there are religious reasons, I would check with your local authorities on that. There might be a "wavier" for those that have a religious reasoning for such an item. If there is no "wavier, then they are technically illegal. But understand that if someone wants to, they might just sue you over that. I understand the rule, but I am not willing to be sued over something to prevent something from being illegal if the item is not unsafe or if the item is only illegal for esthetics.

Peace

Two Shoes In A Pair Of Shoes? How Many Pants In A Pair Of Pants ???
 

Wouldn't the governing body that writes the waiver know enough about the rules to simple tell the player to wear pants, that are perfectly legal, instead of tights, that are illegal. I'm not a theologian, nor do I play one on television, but I doubt that there's a religion out there that requires their followers to wear tights. There probably are religions that require their followers to cover their legs in public, which can be accomplished with a pair of pants.

I officiated a girls game involving a local Christan school a few years ago that had players wearing skirts. Odd looking, but legal.

I just realized that there are several straight lines here for Mark Padgett to take advantage of, but I'll leave them in to make my point.

Billy, you're right. However, check with your state governing body. The rule may be the rule, but we answer to our states more than we answer to the NFHS.

Of course, if you're an IAABO state like me (and you), it gets even more complicated.

"M'm M'm Good!"
 

You're telling me. We would have to involve the International Association of Approved Basketball Officials, the National Federation of State High School Associations, and the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference. There are enough letters in these three acronyms to put together a nice, big pot of alphabet soup.

I get a kick out of the fact that while Colorado is an IAABO state, we are not following the IAABO mechanic of having the calling official go opposite on fouls. IAABO is making this switch, NFHS is not; CO is following NFHS.

A Really Sad Day ...
 

It was sad day when IAABO switched from NFHS mechanics to IAABO mechanics. What's next? IAABO rules? At one point, about twenty five years ago, we had gray IAABO jerseys. Everyone always asked, "Why aren't you wearing stripes?".

There was a situation where my state gave a waiver for a girl that was Muslim. At the time the rule was a little different and the rule was later changed, but they did not want us making personal decisions on these situations.

The bottom line is you want the kids to play. You do not want to be so technical if you can avoid it. Religion is a touchy subject and I do not want to be the person they come looking for if there is a legitimate religious expression.

Peace

OT Warning: Nothing to do with Tights!!
 

Cool signature line, Jeff!

Rosa sat so Martin could walk.
Martin walked so Obama could run.
Barack ran so that our children could fly.


We now return you to your regularly scheduled broadcast.

It Is Written That You Have To Wear Tights When You Play Basketball ..
 

I really like your bottom line. And I am all for legitimate religious expression, just check out my signature. I work with Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Hindus, and we learn a lot about each other by discussing the similarities, and differences, in our different faiths. But, seriously, is there a legitimate, mainstream religion that requires their followers to wear tights, not pants?

A Black Man Elected President In My Lifetime, I'm Glad I Stuck Around ...
 

Our children fly, allowing us to leave this planet a much better place than when we were born.

There are religions that require them to cover up, not necessarily wear tights as opposed to pants. Honestly I do not think it really matters that much to me either way. That is why I said to check with your local associations or state associations. I am sure some schools that are religious would not allow their players to wear things that are normally considered illegal. I have seen kids that were Jewish insist wearing a Yamaka (sp?) and others not wear one at all.

The problem with religion is there are so many interpretations of what should be done and what should not be done. Not everyone Muslim woman wears a burka of any kind or head dress. It really comes down to what the individual thinks is important to them.

Peace

Get off my post
 

If you wanna talk about Obama and sit around the campfire holding hands singing cumbaeyah, go start you own thread.

You wanna talk about tights - please reply.

Wrapped To Tight ...
 

A yarmulke, if held in place properly, I believe would be legal.

A) Pants: Legal
B) Compression shorts down to knees, socks up to knees: Legal
C) Tights: Illegal

Seems like a small jump from A to B, but a really big jump, in penalty, not in fashion, from B to C. Why does the NFHS force us to be fashion police?

Bottom line for me. A girl shows up with a pair of tights in one of my scholastic games with a note saying it's for medical, and/or, religious reasons, especially if the tights are the same color as the shorts, and especially if I had not heard anything in advance from any governing body, she's playing in my game, but the player, coach, and if it's a home game, the site director, will be told that this may be a problem in future games, and I'll be sending out several emails that evening to my superiors. And, if there's an evaluator at my game, and I get a bad rating for letting her play, I'll be pissed, but in my heart, I'll know that I did the right thing for the kid that night, whether she starts, and plays the whole game, or comes off the end of the bench, and plays a minute of garbage time.

You are new here aren't you? :D

Peace

The Customer Is Always Right, Unless They're Wrong ...
 

Good reminder. Your statement reminds me about when I worked a part time job as a jack of all trades at a local, family owned golf course. The manager, who was also an owner, would try to please the customers as much as she could, but she had a breaking point, at which time she would say to the customer, "If you don't like it, buy your own golf course". And by the way, she was a very successful businesswoman, a multimillionaire, and the golf course was very successful, even before Tiger came along to save the golf business. Most of the little bit that I do know about running a business, I learned from her.

Rule reference? how would it be held in place properly, meaning without metal, such as bobby pins, or clippies?

From 3-5-3:

e. Head decorations and headwear, except those specified above, are
prohibited.

EXCEPTION:

We use it......
 

There is a young lady in one of our schools that wears a bandana on her head due to chemo. She keeps it nice and tight and its the same color as her teamate's headbands. She has a letter from the state office that is covered under Nevada's rule citation.

Hey, if you want to talk about bandanas, go start a new thread, will ya? This thread is apparently only for tights. [/sarcasm] :rolleyes:

I have trouble seeing the medical need for a kid to wear tights, but if they have a legitimate physician's note stating they need it, I'm not saying no. When I was coaching, I once saw a soccer official refuse to let a kid on the opposing team play because he was wearing an insulin pump. I knew that it was legal for him to wear it because I was the person who first brought insulin pumps to the attention of the IHSA several years ago. The kid disconnected to pump and played. Can you imagine what might have happened if that kid went down during the game and had problems? For a pair of tights, I'll just submit a report to the IHSA and let them figure it out.
Also, the same thing for religious reasons. As you might guess, I'm not interfering with someone's religious practice, in fact I'll go out of my way to validate it. If, as many have said, there is no need for tights because pants will suffice, why make an issue? Pants or tights... I going to let them wear the tights. NFHS rules explicitly state no jewelry, however there are exceptions for medical alert bracelets and necklaces, and for crosses or a crucifix. If I err on the side of letting them play, they'll let me know from Bloomington if it was a mistake. I'm sure your state will, too.

If your state adheres to NFHS rules. They already have. You just refuse to follow it. 3.5.6 Situation B.

The drama queen is at it again. What is the NF going to do, change the rule again?

Peace

________________________

That would be correct... just as many times I have passed on what could technically be called a travel or a three seconds violation or what was technically a foul but was totally meaningless in the overall picture of the game... just like everyone else does every time they step on court.

Would Someone Contact Officiating.com ASAP ...
 

No. We need more than just a new thread. I think we should have a new Forum, just for bandannas. I've got it. We'll call it the "Bandanna Forum" and it can be listed on the bottom right with the other Forum Jumps. It can be listed right after General, right before Baseball. This will make it easy to find.

Two Words: Duct Tape, One Word: Ouch ...
 

Tape.

_______________________
There was a where I used to live who had a psychological problem that caused her to pull her hair out. She wore a bandanna every game... but no medical release. You think I'm going to add to her trauma my making her take it off. No way.