Our local HS (or at least some of them) will be switching to 3-person mechanics for next season...we have a mini-camp coming up the first of June and I am one of the camp "staff" who will be teaching the 3-person stuff...I am very familiar with NCAA Women's mechanics, but not Fed 3-person...can someone who knows both point out the major differences and similiarities to me...and yes, I have the Fed Officials Manual and am reading it - so far the only difference I have seen is a minor change in court coverage between the L and T (NCAA Women's the L has a bigger area of court to be picking up the ball)...any others I am missing? Thanks for the input...

DJ

The only difference I can think of offhand is the lockdown/last second shot responsibility. NCAA women's has no rotation in last 30 seconds and gives last shot call to the C. NF has rotations and last shot goes to whoever is opposite the table (C/T).

Of course, some NF associations follow the lockdown procedure, so it's best to check.

dj,
I would look at these:

<li> Primary coverage
<li> Long switches
<li> Last shot responsibility
<li> Points of contact in the post
<li> Two count for handcheck
<li> Shot clock
<li> 10 second count
<li> 5 second count
<li> 3 second Foot on the lane line
<li> Proper approved signals
<li> Adminstration of throw-ins
<li> Coaching area
<li> Technical fouls

mick

[Edited by mick on May 23rd, 2002 at 12:05 PM]

Thanks guys...Mick - what's the 2 count for handcheck? Does that mean you actually count two seconds before calling handchecking??? And if so, is that a Michigan interp?

Stays table side on fouls
 

Womens D1 stays table side on fouls, I believe.

dj,
The two count allows the college player to measure once and then remove.
In high school, no hands (<i>subject to interpretation</i>).;)
mick

Oh yeah....
 

...Free throw spots and blocks are different, too. ;)

Gotcha Mick...knew that, but was picturing something entirely different...and Self, that was actually an experimental rule we used only in non-conference games before Jan 1st...thanks for the input!

dj,
So, ...in the interest of sharing information, and in the interest of creating a homogeneous officiating community, I await, with bated breath, your list of the differences between the two levels of ball once you have done all the work for us.
Thanks.
mick

Right...once I figure it all out, it will be time to retire...seriously, I haven't done much HS ball the last few years, but with this change I will probably go back and do some this summer and next season -it should be interesting...

dj,
Well, good luck with it.
The last HS camp, to which I went, had mostly women's officials teaching CCA mechanics. Eventhough they apologized up front that they worked mostly NCAA, they were often corrected, by the campers (...well, okay, by someone I knew) between the differences in the rules and mechanics of these two levels. The camp lost a little credibility as an NFHS camp. Be prepared to help your fellow clinicians if they wander onto the 94' court. ;)
mick

Thanks for the advice Mick...the guy running the camp is the local HS assignor, so he will keep us on the "straight and narrow"...

We don't have assignors.
I don't know if they even know how to officiate.
mick

NF Official's Manual.
 

You almost have to throw out everything and just buy or research the NF Official's Manual. It is totally different in about every way.

Whether it be rotations, coverage, or just simply who has the last second shot, it is all different. I think you guys just need to read heavily the NF Mechanics book. Most of what you need to know is there.

Peace

But, but
 

Rut,
dj said he was into the book already. In addition those campers are gonna get the nuances of 3-man:
<li>Where exactly is the trail on a free throw
<li>Banging in the post
<li>Blarges
<li>Eye contact
<li>Crossing over and push/pulling your partner
<li>Hold your signal on a double-blow
<li>Being a slow Center
<li>Where to go when your partner is lost

Some of that stuff ain't in the book.
mick

Say what?

We don't have assignors.
I don't know if they even know how to officiate.
mick

Re: Stays table side on fouls
 

No - that was an experimental change for a few games at the beginning of this past season.

Re: But, but
 

Well Mick I understand that. I just think there are so many differences that the more and more I think of it, the more and more I come up with something different between the two as it relates to mechanics. And I agree that there are many things that are not in the book, but that just goes to your basic philosophy about officiating and how to handle those situations. Those philosophies do not necessarily have a level. I use some of those same ideals at all the levels I do. But for the purposes of learning different mechanics between the two, I think combing the NF Official's Manual is the best thing. There really is not that much there to not make a distiction in my opinion.

Peace

OK, I spent about 2 hours with my NF Mechanics book last night...rules differences aside (I am ok with those) I can only find a couple of mechanics differences...1)Last second shot in NF is either T or C, whichever is opposite the table (NCAA Women's is ALWAYS C)...2) the coverage area for who has the ball is different - L has a smaller are of court to call...other than that, it seems pretty much the same as far as mechanics and rotations and such...am I missing something here??

How about:
Stop clock signal, preliminary signal and bird dogging a foul.
Just clearing the players vs. foul reporting area.

Right - I am ok with all of those also...still around the HS game enough to handle those things...guess my main concerns were with the floor stuff...anything I missed there?

They'll forget everything anyway.
 

Shucks, DJ, yer close enough.
Have fun with it.
mick

Rotations are really different.
 

Rotations are completely different. In NCAA Women's you are suppose to rotate when the ball crosses the middle of the court. In NF you are suppose to to rotate when the ball is below FT line extended and the ball has settled to some extent. Even the NCAA Men's does not rotate at the same rate as NCAA Women's. That is why the coverage area is so different. You have to rotate more in CCA Women's Mechanics to maintain the coverage area. You have a wider area in Women's mechanics. You have the 3 point line, out of bounds on the sideline and in general a more extended area. In NF mechanics, you basically have the post.

Really only the NF Mechanics and the CCA Men's Mechanics are much more inline. CCA Women's is another world.

Peace

That's funny...after reading the Fed book for quite a while, and working the CCa Women's for quite a while, I don't see all those differences you say they are...oh well...

You need to look in both manuals.
 

Look at the rotation principles in both. The NF clearly has a different philosophy than the CCA Women's one. CCA Women's and the NBA are almost identical in the mechanics as it relates to coverage. NF and CCA Men's is almost identical too.

Look in NF you never signal a 3 point shot attempt in a half court situation, you do in NF Men's. The last second shot is always the opposite the table, either the T or C no matter what in NF. The C is the official that has the last second shot in CCA Women's. No long switches in NF Mehanics, I believe CCA Women's you still do that. CCA Men's wants you to long switch. All you have to look is at the primary coverages in both manuals and it will all be clear. They design them to be totally different so those that officials will be committed to one or the other.

I have all 3 of the manuals in front of me, I would not be trying to stear you wrong.

Peace

I think we are saying the same things...as I posted earlier, the major differences I see are the L's floor coverage and the last second shot responsibilties...isn't that what you are saying also?? Thanks for the input, Jeff.

One more mechanic missing from woman's ball is trail chops clock when lead administers throw in. Good luck.

I just got back from camp where the top guy for the state of Texas in basketball officiating was present. He is looking at developing a three man certification system so he knows who can call three man from a given area in the playoffs. No Cert, no playoffs.

Tim,
Could that be opposite, or Center, chops on an end line throw-in?
mick

I'm pretter sure it was trail. I have watched several college womans games over the last year and was watching at a woman's camp when the mechanic was introduced. I might be wrong but I don't think so.

I just don't remember either, but if the object of the mechanic is to help the timer, if there is an end line throw-in in the backcourt, then Center would be best bet to see. With an end line throw in in the front court, I agree the Trail would be a logical choice.
Oh, well, my first Women's game isn't until January. Maybe I'll be ready by then.
mick

The one thing I did remember hearing is when you use this mechanic, as lead, toot your whistle so that the trail remembers to raise his hand. Too many official's do two man on Friday night with HS boys and then do College Woman's on Saterday afternoon.

Oh, yeah, the administrating official toots, too.
That's funny about Friday night and Saturday. I have spent a few Saturday mornings sucking coffee and soaking rules.:)

This ought to be interesting at rocky's camp. One of the things I remember from last year, was that "campers are blowing the whistle too much!!"

Seriously, rocky, I'm looking forward to what you have to offer. Is all EBOA going to be 3-whistle next year? Or only varsity? Only playoffs?

Jewel,
I wish I was going to a camp. I just love 'em.
Blowing thw whistle too much? You mean echo whistles?
mick

First to Tim - yes the L toots on all throw-ins they administer, and yes the T chops on all frontcourt throw-ins - thanks, I would not have remembered that was different and would have told someone to do it...

Juulie - will you be at the camp? It's at a different school this year, I believe...anyway, the 3-person will be only for the 4A Varsity games (possibly JV also) and is being instituted at the request of the 4A coaches and AD's...so, we will teach it at the camp this summer...

And as for the whistles being blown too much - we had lots of fouls being called last year at the camp which could have (my opinion here) been let go as not affecting the play, etc...not wanting to start any arguments here about judgement vs. rules - it wasn't that big an issue for me as I don't critique a lot of judgement stuff as evaluator...we did have two "evaluators" last year who were very loud, obnoxious, and liked to get on people's cases for making "bad calls" - they won't be here this year!!

What I was specifically told, last year, was that we were tooting too much, when we inbounded the ball. All those whistles seemed to be too much for at least one of the evaluators. I don't remember who it was. I do remember it though, because I wrote myself a note, "When in Vancouver, don't toot as much. Remember that Portland is different!" Same type of note about getting to the reporting area "In Vancouver, WALK quickly, DO NOT RUN!" is exactly what I noted. The top of the page of notes is "DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PORTLAND AND VANCOUVER!!"