lead mirror the trail's made three signal?

[mcdanrd]

PIAA ref has it right. According to the 2007-2009 Officials Manual 2.3.4B.5 "When the trail official signals a successful three-point attempt, the lead official SHALL NOT mirror the signal.

2.3.4B.6 says "When the lead offical signals a successful 3-point attempt the trail official SHALL mirror the signal.

I was told at state-wide association camp that the trail should mirror the 3-point attempt signal of the lead and at that point the lead should drop his/her attempt signal and the trail only will signal successful three-point attempt. The theory being that the lead will follow the action under the basket and the trail, with a wider viewing area, will be responsible for the basket.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by mcdanrd

PIAA ref has it right. According to the 2007-2009 Officials Manual 2.3.4B.5 "When the trail official signals a successful three-point attempt, the lead official SHALL NOT mirror the signal.

2.3.4B.6 says "When the lead offical signals a successful 3-point attempt the trail official SHALL mirror the signal.

I was told at state-wide association camp that the trail should mirror the 3-point attempt signal of the lead and at that point the lead should drop his/her attempt signal and the trail only will signal successful three-point attempt. The theory being that the lead will follow the action under the basket and the trail, with a wider viewing area, will be responsible for the basket.

What I don't like about the L dropping is that this mechanic confuses the issue if the L signalled prematurely. If the L drops because the toe was on the line at the last second, then the T is signalling a 3PA when it isn't.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

What I don't like about the L dropping is that this mechanic confuses the issue if the L signalled prematurely. If the L drops because the toe was on the line at the last second, then the T is signalling a 3PA when it isn't.

Great point JugglingReferee! But not only that, doesn't the attempt signal also mean that you have that airborne shooter up & down?
So if the L drops signal/coverage on the shot in their corner & referees players in the paint, the T is supposed to look through all the bodies & referee that play

IMO it's easier for the T to see that the L has it covered & should help out on rebounding coverage.

[Back In The Saddle]

I've never been taught that marking the 3PA also assigns ownership of the shooter to that official. In fact, I've only heard that association stated here in the past few months. Logically they do go together, but to assign a cause and effect relationship could lead to what you just suggested. It may be a good rule of thumb, but it's not a good rule IMHO. Whether the lead drops the mark or not, if the shot is from the lead's area, the lead has the shooter.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

What I don't like about the L dropping is that this mechanic confuses the issue if the L signalled prematurely. If the L drops because the toe was on the line at the last second, then the T is signalling a 3PA when it isn't.

The L should raise the arm only when sure that it's a 3 point attempt, not before.

In Fiba the mechanics is just the one mentioned by mcdanrd.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

The L should raise the arm only when sure that it's a 3 point attempt, not before.

In Fiba the mechanics is just the one mentioned by mcdanrd.

You're right, the L should only raise his arm on the attempt. But we make mistakes and Murphy will pop his head up now and again.

FIBA's mechanics, I believe, don't consider that newbies are officiating their events. There are many leagues around the world where first or second year officials are working FIBA rules, and make the mistake of the premature signal. With FIBA's L "drop" mechanic, there will be a higher number of mistakes than with Fed's "no drop" mechanic.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

You're right, the L should only raise his arm on the attempt. But we make mistakes and Murphy will pop his head up now and again.

FIBA's mechanics, I believe, don't consider that newbies are officiating their events. There are many leagues around the world where first or second year officials are working FIBA rules, and make the mistake of the premature signal. With FIBA's L "drop" mechanic, there will be a higher number of mistakes than with Fed's "no drop" mechanic.

I don't think so. I've seen very few premature (i.e., wrong) signals of this kind; it's more frequent that an official signals on a fake, which is only an minor annoyance.

Ciao

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

I don't think so. I've seen very few premature (i.e., wrong) signals of this kind; it's more frequent that an official signals on a fake, which is only an minor annoyance.

Ciao

Sorry - I just want to be clear. "I don't think so" to what statement?

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Sorry - I just want to be clear. "I don't think so" to what statement?

I don't think that there will be a higher number of mistakes. Raise the arm when the ball has left the shooter's hands. I know that the try begins before that moment, but only then we know precisely if it's a real three point attempt.

It could be a fake, for example. Raising the arm in this case is harmless, of course, but it's not nice to see.

Ciao