Proper Mechanic
 

In a two man game if a three is taken in the deep corner and Lead marks it does he also mirror the make of Trail if the field goal is good?

I was going to look this up, but you experts on here should know just as well as the book does! ;)

Normally the lead makes the attempt signal if the shot is in their area. And they signal the basket good (TD signal) when it is good in their primary. If the shot is not in their area, then the Lead does not signal a good shot.

I would check with your local people, some might want a different application.

Peace

I agree it maybe an area thing.

Some may want to pre-game this particular situation.

Yes, if the Lead marks the 3pt attempt because it came from his primary, then he also gives the successful 3pt goal signal and the Trail will mirror that. If the attempt comes from the Trail's primary, then he will take care of the signal if the goal is made and the Lead does not mirror.

You can find this on page 30 of the 2007-09 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual.

I agree with Nevada. The lead should signal the successful goal and the trail should mirror. This is the only time (that I can think of) when the lead signals for a three-point attempt.

-Josh

So, if it's in the Lead's area, does the Trail mirror just the successful goal, or does he signal the attempt, too?

Just the successful goal.

So here's what doesn't make sense to me.

I've always been told that the mirror mechanic is for the benefit of the scorekeeper and the benches, since the lead is often buried in the baseline and hard to see.

If we mirror the successful goal, why don't we also mirror the attempt so that the scorekeeper (for the sake of stat-keeping) and the bench can know that it's a three-point attempt?

The attempt isn't as important as the made goal, from a scorekeeping standpoint. That's why only the made goal is mirrored, to make sure the scorekeepper sees it.

The official that has on-ball coverage knows whether it's a 3-point attempt or not, so if both officials signal the attempt, who's watching off-ball? ;)

I've done stat keeping for D1 basketball. From my experience, the stats crews generally have an idea of who's call it is. I don't think it's really a problem to be honest.

-Josh

I run across many officials with this same thought. Many are under the impression that signaling the "attempt" is just that, but that signal also indicates that you have the shooter up & down (one foot). So in a 2 person game if both officials have the attempt, who's watching off-ball where 70 - 80% of the action takes place?
Even in a 3 person game, when 2 official are signaling the attempt, someone should recognize that, drop their hand & officiate elsewhere.

It is not about knowledge of the table people, it is about who are the table likely to see. Usually the Lead official is not the most likely person to be seen. The idea is to have the Trail (and Center in 3) that is easier to see to always mirror or signal the good three point attempt. And if the Lead is looking a three point shots attempt, they are not likely looking at the things going on in their area. The Lead has most of the players in their primary.

Peace

I'm not saying that the Trail has the shooter. I'm just saying you can watch your area, know what's going on there, and also see your partner signal the attempt.

Signaling the attempt does not necessarily mean you're not watching your primary.

This is an interesting discussion and I am not saying I agree it comes down to an area association requirement.
One thing I do believe is the Lead should be signalling an attempt from the corner, mirrored by the lead and the lead picks up the shot and signals the good basket if it scores. The lead "should not" be responsible for watching if the basket goes in. They should be watching rebounders and/or staying withthe shooter.

The Lead does not need to know the shot goes in, that becomes rather obvious after a second or two, by the way the players react to the ball and how the ball comes through the net. This is not like a foul where you might have to watch players come to the floor. The players most of all tell you if the ball goes in. Actually, the Lead might be watching the shooter and the Trail will watch the rebounding.

Peace

If you're signaling the attempt (got the shooter up & down) which is NOT in your PCA, how could you possibly referee your PCA to the best of your abilities?
Even if there is no competitive match-ups in your PCA when the shot goes up, do we really need to extend in the direction of the shooter?
Extending to the rebounding area of the court would be wiser IMHO...

I'm not speaking on fast break situations, just typical half-court settings.

But, that <b>is</B> what the signal means - that official is watching the shooter. If I see two officials signal a 3-point attempt, I know two officials are watching the ball. It is the same reason you will not see 2 officials with a closely-guarded count. That signal is for the on-ball official.

Agreed. You can get teh same thing in 3-person -- if both the T and the C indicate the attempt, the crew gets downgraded.

Ahh yes, mj's pet peeve #86. I pre-game this almost every game I do 3 person. If both the C and the T mark a three pointer, the C should drop it and focus on the flight of the shot and then rebounders. The T then stays with the shooter.

What about on a quick steal or fast break where the trail hasn't recognized the change of possession and is too far behind the play to see if it is a three-point attempt or not. In that case would the Lead give the preliminary three-point indication even if the shot were attempted at the top of the key out of the Leads primary area but in a spot where he could still visually see that it was a three-point attempt?

I've had a couple veterans tell me that if I'm Lead and I signal, they won't signal at all as Trail and let me have it the whole way.

But going back to what you guys are talking about: If I'm Trail and the Lead signals, should I never mirror the attempt at all, but just mirror the good 3-point shot instead?

Not true... I think the official whose PCA the shot is attempted from should stay & the other official should drop & look elsewhere.

In your above description, if the shot is from the Cs PCA, but the T & C both have the attempt, then the T should find something else to referee.

Asked and answered. See post #7.

Someone needs to signal it, and if the T can't, ....

If the T is still in the BC, then the whole FC is the lead's primary.

Yes. In this situation the old T/new L is nearly always trailing the play closely while the old L/new T is still well down court. So if the shooter is within a foot or so of the line, it is good help for the L to either mark the attempt or give a "2 point shot" signal (if that signal is used in your area). Once the T has picked up the signal, drop it.

There will always be plays that are in BOTH PCAs....player has one foot in each. There will always be situations where the officials will double signal legitimately....no way around it.

No doubt, when the shot comes from a grey area perhaps two officials hands will initially go up for the attempt. But the people I work for expect officials to be cognizant when a partner is already officiating that play, drop it & referee elsewhere.

That was the play I was referring to above. Thank you for clarifying Camron.