Unfortunately I had the chance to see the replays of this game. The strike em out-throw him out play was a disaster. I am not sure but their may have been a second where the ball actually disappeared in the dirt.
Chuck, I would have to agree with you, the MLB staff fell in the officiating ranks last night.

That was on when I turned on the TV this morning. I couldn't tell on the HR/Foul ball dispute, but from the replay, the runner was (from my angle and rules knowledge) safe on the steal in question.

funny, i just read this post, turned on the tele and saw the plays in question, good timing. Home run was obviously foul, but I thought the called third strike was reasonable and the play at second was very close. It looked like to me he was there but his slide slowed almost to a halt before his foot touched the bag allowing the tag to get down on his foot at almost the same time he got to the bag, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to the guy standing on top of the play.

OK- so we get to see the replay, we have the best angle in the house. We all can make the correct call. Out, Safe, Foul, no foul, Icing, offsides, inbounds, out of bounds, apples, oranges, pineapples, and kiwis.

My vote goes to the WWF referee, They will be going to the NBA soon. Because NBA is not a sport anymore, it is entertainment.

AK ref SE

The World Wildlife Foundation has referee's?

AK:

Some simple words for ya:
"You have to appreciate the game for what it is." The pro's are a whole different level and although thousands watch in night in and night out it still is the game that Mr. Naismith invented. As you know pro athletes are bigger and wiser, so I think you need to think about the negativity you have toward the pro game.

It's still the game of B-Ball and that is what makes it great.

iref21, NBA far from what Naismith invented
 

AK ref SE is correct. The Pro game has become just that entertainment. The officials are instructed how to call in the NBA and what to let go. They very much stretch the intent of the rules. I am tired of hearing how great these athletes are. They have ruined the game by how they are instructed to officiate. Upper Mgmt. has made a big mistake, that is why attendance is down and still dropping. Not to mention the lack of any real icon or role model.

Re: iref21, NBA far from what Naismith invented
 

I really have to disagree, Self. They don't stretch the intent of the NBA rules. The rules are written with a particular philosophy, just as the NF rules are. The officials are then instructed (by their director of officials and the Officials' Manual) regarding that philosophy and how the game should be called, just as NF officials are (by a board interpreter and the Officials' Manual). The officials do not, in my opinion, "stretch" the intent at all. They simply call the game the way the league wants it called. Now you may take issue with the league's philosophy, but I don't think you can put that on the officials. There's nothing wrong with being instructed how to call a game.

Quote:

Upper Mgmt. has made a big mistake, that is why attendance is down and still dropping. Not to mention the lack of any real icon or role model.

You might be right about the league's philosophy. But my personal opinion is that they are on the right track to making the game more fun and more watchable. Pat Riley's Knicks and Mike Fratello's Cavaliers really dragged the league down into ugly, unwatchable basketball. But the new rules in the last couple years have started to turn the tide back toward opening up offenses and discouraging the thuggery that passed as defense in Riley's system.

As far as role models, oh well. Nobody pays them to be role models, much as we might want them to be. Old time players weren't role models either. It's just that now, the media attention is so much greater that we get to see all their "faults" much more than anybody did even 20 years ago. And even though there are certainly a large number of players that I wouldn't want to hang out with in polite company, there are also a LOT of athletes (in all sports) who do good things out of the spotlight. Even Alonzo Mourning (who I personally can't stand) is supposedly a great guy off the court who has his own charity that does amazing work.

Again, just my opinion.

Chuck

Chuck good points..
 

I agree regarding the officials are calling the game the way they are instructed and you can't blame them. I see that point, no problem.

I do think upper mgmt is ruining the game though. I have seen the attendance numbers, and they are on the decline. I am an avid baskeball and and referee. I love the game, but I do not care for teh NBA. The college I officiate and the HS(to me) is so much more enjoyable basketball. The kids are playing there hearts out. The NBA while I understand the season is long(i've heard this) and players can't play 100% every night, is why it doesn't seem lik ethey are trying. If that is the case, then shorten the season. For that amount of money. I expect 100% every night, or close to it.

Again to me the NBA game is turning in entertainment and they are losing the battle. Hockey attendance is on the way up. I have heard from many, that the reason they feel hockey is on the way up and NBA on the way down is white america can't relate now with the players of the NBA. From looking at the crowd in attendance, they may not be far off.

Time will tell if the NBA's new rules will help.

Re: Chuck good points..
 

If that's true, and I suppose it's possible, it's not the fault of the league. And new rules won't help. You can't make a rule mandating a minimum number of white guys on a team.

Chuck

Sure you can, it's called Affirmative Action. :)

In all seriousness, I doubt that the reason for attendance drop is the ethnic makeup of the players. You could make the same circumstantial case for an increase in non-American players. Correlation does not mean cause and effect. Hockey may not be a good example, as it is the yuppie sport of choice at the moment and will wane when the wine and cheesers find something new.

A high concentration of African-American players is not a new phenomenon to the NBA (or other professional basketball leagues). What has been changing is the quality and consistency of the product. College basketball and high school basketball remain entertaining because the length of the season means that all of the games have meaning, much like football, and the players are playing to survive to the next level every game. The length of the regular season in the NBA diminishes the impact of losses. I think that the number of teams and dilution of talent has also decreased the quality of the product.

The NBA, like all other pro sports leagues, are entertainment, just like the movies, concerts and other similar endeavors. This means that they all compete for the same expendable income. If basketball ceases to be entertaining, which it has, the dollars will move elsewhere. If the game opens up and becomes more entertaining, the attendance will pick back up, regardless of the ethnic makeup of the team.

Chuck, kiddingly Why not?
 

Corporate America across the US is dealing with diversity. They have set diversity numbers they are working toward in their workforce. NBA could do the same.

[Edited by Self on May 23rd, 2002 at 10:56 AM]

The NBA is entertainment, I dont want to burst your bubble but so is college ball. There are 160 plus DI schools out there, untold numbers of DII and DIII. There are only 29 (?) NBA teams. On any given weekend there are 30 -100% more fans watching college ball than NBA. Who has the crowds? You dont think that NF basketball is entertainment? what do all these small towns across the country do. When 96% of these small towns show up for basketball games it's to support kids but you dot think they are being entertained? Its th social/sporting/entertainemnt event of the week,!
Look at the rule changes- shot clocks, one shot T's, points of interruption, limit number on FT lane, no shots on all offensive fouls, reductions and changes in time outs, are all part of the game to speed it up and make it more entertaining. I would suugest that most of these rules ought to be at the NF level, and given a year or two most will be. Shaq picked up three offensive fouls the other night.
(I guess college basketball isnt very physical aw maybe it's just the Big East and SEC that play that way)The game is played differently in different parts of the country depending on the conference as well.
And you dont think the college refs are told how to officiate the game? That's why the college coaches have the power they do and have a lot of impact who works games and how.


I will tell you first hand that you cannot call the basketball game the same with pro players that you do with HS even if you played the exact same rules. The NBA players are best 400 players in the world. Theres probably a few in Europe but all in all not much comparison. They are the biggest, fastest, strongest and you just cant call the game the same way.

If I had my choice, I'd rather reff Stockton, Malone, Duncan, Robinson, Shaq and Kobe.... etc than I would a girls varsity game

Ah come on Kelvin! I know you're just dying to do the Layton Christian v. Meridian girls next year!:D:D

I was thinking more about ST Joseph vs Meridan... wasnt the final score two years ago 74-0???