How Far is Too Far?

Spence · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 11:24am

Rookie official here preparing for my first season.

I'm looking for opinions on how far you let a coach go in his/her complaining?

Are any of the following "too far?"

You suck.
That call sucked.
That was a garbage call.
Are you blind?

Quietly within earshot of no one but me in a non-hostile tone: "Geez, Spence, that was a B.S. call."(without using the initials)

Cursing? Automatic T?

Thoughts?

Mark Padgett · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 11:26am

As far as I am concerned, each one of those means it's "T time".

grunewar · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 11:31am

Concur with Mark. All of those get a WHACK! When you first start out you may be a bit hesitant to call a "T". After a while though, you'll find them to be "just another foul" and a useful tool in your kit bag! Good luck.

#4 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

As far as I am concerned, each one of those means it's "T time".

Agreed, it's either take care of business or be labeled a
$h!t-eater...

OHBBREF · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 11:36am

anything you have listed there could result in a "T"
but sometimes it isn't what but how, things are said.
You will know when to Whack a coach, it just presents itself on a big platter in front of you, it looks like a pumpkin at 40 miles an hour belt high (pardon the baseball reference) and you get to WHACK it out of the park.

be patient though, you do not want to be quick draw, but do not get walked all over either.

chartrusepengui · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 11:40am

any or all could be a T

if coaches know you are a rookie - they will push. Once they find out you are not afraid to give the T when warranted - they generally will back off unless they are masochists.

tomegun · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 07:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

anything you have listed there could result in a "T"
but sometimes it isn't what but how, things are said.
You will know when to Whack a coach, it just presents itself on a big platter in front of you, it looks like a pumpkin at 40 miles an hour belt high (pardon the baseball reference) and you get to WHACK it out of the park.

be patient though, you do not want to be quick draw, but do not get walked all over either.

You are kidding right? If I'm reading what you wrote, a young official will know when to whack a coach. Uh, if you think so.

Many young officials let a coach go totally over the line and they learn from experience. One way to learn is ask as the OP has done and some of the responses have been very good. But some...

OHBBREF · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 28, 2008, 08:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun

You are kidding right? If I'm reading what you wrote, a young official will know when to whack a coach.
Many young officials let a coach go totally over the line and they learn from experience. One way to learn is ask as the OP has done and some of the responses have been very good. But some...

Oh they will know it - what will distinguish them from the others is if they pull the trigger.
I know veterans who don't hit the big fat ones because they are afraid of losing votes or game or their poularity.
That is a part of the learning process, as is asking for all of this great information.

Adam · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 12:23pm

All of those would be a T 99.9999878734134% of the time.
I don't do automatics, even thought the things you might think are "automatic" would earn a T 99.999999999999999999999% of the time. There's always the one chance a T isn't called for on an otherwise "automatic" thing.

If he gets personal, it's likely a T. (ie, "You suck.")
If he swears at you, it's likely a T. ("Didn't you see the damm foul?")
If he questions your integrity, it's likely a T. ("We're getting homered again.")

Spence · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 12:41pm

Scenario: Team A calls a TO and I know that the HC is upset over some callsw. He or his assistants leaves the huddle and wants to have a conversation with me.

Do I leave my position or do I just ignore the request?

jdw3018 · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 12:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence

Scenario: Team A calls a TO and I know that the HC is upset over some callsw. He or his assistants leaves the huddle and wants to have a conversation with me.

Do I leave my position or do I just ignore the request?

My take: it depends on a lot of things.

If to that point in the game the coach has been fairly proper and there has been good communication, then I'm definitely acknowledging him and probably going over to talk with him. If he's been on my case some, I'm still going to try to communicate with him, but maybe from a bit of a distance and with clear, short terms, and then getting back to my spot.

If he's been warned already, I'm probably letting him know that we've already said we're done talking, and if he persists then he's probably going to early himself a technical foul.

Oh, and two points - even if I "go over" to him when he wants to talk, I'm still keeping the convo short, just answering his question(s) with specific rules-related answers, and getting back to my spot fairly quickly.

Secondly, I say "probably" a lot because IMO there's never an "always do it this way" approach.

BBall_Junkie · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 12:57pm

If I agree with him that my call sucked, I will not give him a "T". I will probably tell him "you're right".

If I don't agree with him, I will let him have his opinion as long as he lets it go.

Now if he makes it personal with a "You Suck" or "Your Partner's suck", he will get whacked. That I will not allow.

Coltdoggs · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 01:24pm

Any of those could warrant a T in my opinion...

My rule of thumb of late (past 3 years) has been...if your comment brings in question my integrity as an official...I'm handing out a T.

It's 7 on 5 out there..
We are getting homered!
Your kid on that team?

Things along those lines....I don't like to lump things into an ALWAYS category but my integrity questioned is not up for discussion.

Saying "I don't agree with that call!" or "You missed that one, ref"....is much different than "That call sucked!" They are entitled to and will not agree with all your calls...figure out the difference between that and questioning your integirty as an unbiased observer who is there to interpret the rules and apply them to the best of your ability.

OHBBREF · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 01:42pm

Don't do conversations, if he has a question answer it succinctly and get out, if he just wants to rant we are done.
Explain early on to the coaches - "if you have a question coach, and you are calm about it we are willing to address it, otherwise we really do not need to interact"
I know too many officials that will carry on conversations with coaches about not getitng a call there or answer declaritive statements such as " he's reaching" or "get him off of him".
These are not questions there is no need to address them.
If you carry on a conversation with a coach about calls early in the game, and suddenly you aren't talking to him because he is being an a$$, now you are the one who is aloof, you are the problem, you shut him out and don't want to communicate.
Do not have conversations with coaches - answer questions succinctly and get out, they have 900 lines for people who want to talk.

26 Year Gap · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 27, 2008, 08:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence

Scenario: Team A calls a TO and I know that the HC is upset over some callsw. He or his assistants leaves the huddle and wants to have a conversation with me.

Do I leave my position or do I just ignore the request?

Well, they could talk to the assistant officials. Oh, there are none.

HC depends how his demeanor is and if he has a question on a particular play.