How Far is Too Far?

[Spence]

Rookie official here preparing for my first season.

I'm looking for opinions on how far you let a coach go in his/her complaining?

Are any of the following "too far?"

You suck.
That call sucked.
That was a garbage call.
Are you blind?


Quietly within earshot of no one but me in a non-hostile tone: "Geez, Spence, that was a B.S. call."(without using the initials)

Cursing? Automatic T?

Thoughts?

[Mark Padgett]

As far as I am concerned, each one of those means it's "T time".

[grunewar]

Concur with Mark. All of those get a WHACK! When you first start out you may be a bit hesitant to call a "T". After a while though, you'll find them to be "just another foul" and a useful tool in your kit bag! Good luck.

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

As far as I am concerned, each one of those means it's "T time".

Agreed, it's either take care of business or be labeled a
$h!t-eater...

[OHBBREF]

anything you have listed there could result in a "T"
but sometimes it isn't what but how, things are said.
You will know when to Whack a coach, it just presents itself on a big platter in front of you, it looks like a pumpkin at 40 miles an hour belt high (pardon the baseball reference) and you get to WHACK it out of the park.

be patient though, you do not want to be quick draw, but do not get walked all over either.

[chartrusepengui]

any or all could be a T

if coaches know you are a rookie - they will push. Once they find out you are not afraid to give the T when warranted - they generally will back off unless they are masochists.

[Adam]

All of those would be a T 99.9999878734134% of the time.
I don't do automatics, even thought the things you might think are "automatic" would earn a T 99.999999999999999999999% of the time. There's always the one chance a T isn't called for on an otherwise "automatic" thing.

If he gets personal, it's likely a T. (ie, "You suck.")
If he swears at you, it's likely a T. ("Didn't you see the damm foul?")
If he questions your integrity, it's likely a T. ("We're getting homered again.")

[Spence]

Scenario: Team A calls a TO and I know that the HC is upset over some callsw. He or his assistants leaves the huddle and wants to have a conversation with me.

Do I leave my position or do I just ignore the request?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Spence

Scenario: Team A calls a TO and I know that the HC is upset over some callsw. He or his assistants leaves the huddle and wants to have a conversation with me.

Do I leave my position or do I just ignore the request?

My take: it depends on a lot of things.

If to that point in the game the coach has been fairly proper and there has been good communication, then I'm definitely acknowledging him and probably going over to talk with him. If he's been on my case some, I'm still going to try to communicate with him, but maybe from a bit of a distance and with clear, short terms, and then getting back to my spot.

If he's been warned already, I'm probably letting him know that we've already said we're done talking, and if he persists then he's probably going to early himself a technical foul.

Oh, and two points - even if I "go over" to him when he wants to talk, I'm still keeping the convo short, just answering his question(s) with specific rules-related answers, and getting back to my spot fairly quickly.

Secondly, I say "probably" a lot because IMO there's never an "always do it this way" approach.

[BBall_Junkie]

If I agree with him that my call sucked, I will not give him a "T". I will probably tell him "you're right". If I don't agree with him, I will let him have his opinion as long as he lets it go.

Now if he makes it personal with a "You Suck" or "Your Partner's suck", he will get whacked. That I will not allow.

[Coltdoggs]

Any of those could warrant a T in my opinion...

My rule of thumb of late (past 3 years) has been...if your comment brings in question my integrity as an official...I'm handing out a T.

It's 7 on 5 out there..
We are getting homered!
Your kid on that team?

Things along those lines....I don't like to lump things into an ALWAYS category but my integrity questioned is not up for discussion.

Saying "I don't agree with that call!" or "You missed that one, ref"....is much different than "That call sucked!" They are entitled to and will not agree with all your calls...figure out the difference between that and questioning your integirty as an unbiased observer who is there to interpret the rules and apply them to the best of your ability.

[OHBBREF]

Don't do conversations, if he has a question answer it succinctly and get out, if he just wants to rant we are done.
Explain early on to the coaches - "if you have a question coach, and you are calm about it we are willing to address it, otherwise we really do not need to interact"
I know too many officials that will carry on conversations with coaches about not getitng a call there or answer declaritive statements such as " he's reaching" or "get him off of him".
These are not questions there is no need to address them.
If you carry on a conversation with a coach about calls early in the game, and suddenly you aren't talking to him because he is being an a$$, now you are the one who is aloof, you are the problem, you shut him out and don't want to communicate.
Do not have conversations with coaches - answer questions succinctly and get out, they have 900 lines for people who want to talk.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Spence

Rookie official here preparing for my first season.

I'm looking for opinions on how far you let a coach go in his/her complaining?

Are any of the following "too far?"

You suck.
That call sucked.
That was a garbage call.
Are you blind?


Quietly within earshot of no one but me in a non-hostile tone: "Geez, Spence, that was a B.S. call."(without using the initials)

Cursing? Automatic T?

Thoughts?

You suck- Tech
That call sucked- NO Tech (its not personal, just didn't like the call, so what)
That was a garbage call (same as above)
Are you blind- Tech (Personally directed at you)

Also we need to define what level you are officiating. If a coach cusses in my leagues, AT me, more than likely i will have a T. If he cusses TO me, that is different. Cussing is never an automatic to me, unless its a youth game and even one person can hear it.

As far as talking to coaches during timeouts... I'm alright with it as long as you do it the right way:

Dont ever walk into the huddle or near the huddle to talk with a coach. Stand right around the elbow closest to the bench and let him say his bit while you stand there. Once he finishes and you start to respond, start walking him back to the huddle while explaining your play (he will follow, I swear. Its uncanny how this works). Now by the time you are done with your explanation you have placed him in his huddle and it allows you to leave and if he follows and is still on you, then it looks like he is coming after you and all the onus is now put on him...

Remember, some coaches take timeouts just to talk with the official. It's his timeout and if he wants to waste it on you fill flattered (haha) and let him say his peace. Whether he gets a T or not is on him.

[Back In The Saddle]

I think this may have originated over on the baseball side, but it works very nicely in basketball too...

Remember the 3 P's: if the comment is personal, profane, or prolonged, it's going to take a very good reason for me to NOT give the coach his T.

It's tough to know when to whack a coach when you're starting out. The pumpkin at the belt ones are easy but rare. It's the ones on the corners (to continue the metaphor) that will give you fits. So aside from the 3 P's, the other thing I would tell you is that if the next day you wish had whacked the coach, you should have.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Remember the 3 P's: if the comment is personal, profane, or prolonged, .

There are a few versions of that theme. I've heard it with prolonged replaced by public.