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Spence Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:17am

Rookie Official Question
 
First year official.

Manual says that in a 2-man crew on the opening tip that the official goes with the ball. The official is table side.

Does that tell me that I have the table side sideline and the referee goes opposite?

Is there any guideline as to what sideline the lead has vs the trail on a non throw-in situation?

Ch1town Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:28am

Not sure if I'm understanding your question...
but the tableside official who chops the clock (U) will become L & is responsible for the sideline closest to him/her.

Spence Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 543524)
Not sure if I'm understanding your question...
but the tableside official who chops the clock (U) will become L & is responsible for the sideline closest to him/her.

Let me say that I'm not trying to argue but being a rookie and using my trusty dusty manual it says that the tableside official goes with the ball - not necessarily becomes the lead. Is that not what most do?

I guess my overall question is this: what determines what side of the court the lead is on vs the trail in any situation other than a spot throw-in?

bob jenkins Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence (Post 543529)
Let me say that I'm not trying to argue but being a rookie and using my trusty dusty manual it says that the tableside official goes with the ball - not necessarily becomes the lead. Is that not what most do?

I guess my overall question is this: what determines what side of the court the lead is on vs the trail in any situation other than a spot throw-in?


99% of the time, the U becomes the lead. Only if there's a tip to the "backcourt" AND there's pressure will the U become the T.

The U is always table side on (and during the initial play after) a jump ball. The R is opposite table.

During a FT, the administering offical is table side, the non-administering official is opposite (that's the standard; some organizations have the calling official stay table side and have the other official administer and stay opposite).

mick Thu Oct 16, 2008 03:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence (Post 543529)
Let me say that I'm not trying to argue but being a rookie and using my trusty dusty manual it says that the tableside official goes with the ball - not necessarily becomes the lead. Is that not what most do?

I guess my overall question is this: what determines what side of the court the lead is on vs the trail in any situation other than a spot throw-in?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 543532)
99% of the time, the U becomes the lead. Only if there's a tip to the "backcourt" AND there's pressure will the U become the T.

The U is always table side on (and during the initial play after) a jump ball. The R is opposite table.

During a FT, the administering offical is table side, the non-administering official is opposite (that's the standard; some organizations have the calling official stay table side and have the other official administer and stay opposite).

Spence, I agree with you that it is as written (and easier) for the Umpire to go with the ball.
I also agree with Bob that the Umpire (usually) becomes Lead.

I suggest you pre-game the jump ball so the front court gets covered.

BillyMac Thu Oct 16, 2008 07:28pm

Tails I Win, Heads You Lose ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence (Post 543520)
First year official. Manual says that in a 2-man crew on the opening tip that the official goes with the ball. The official is table side. Does that tell me that I have the table side sideline and the referee goes opposite? Is there any guideline as to what sideline the lead has vs the trail on a non throw-in situation?

This is worth repeating: I'd prefer to keep the rules, and mechanics, regarding jump balls just the way they are, with just two minor changes. I would eliminate the jump that starts the game, and I would eliminate the jump ball that starts each overtime period. Let's flip a coin like they do in football, and soccer. I'll bring the coin, and whoever loses the coin toss can keep the coin. That way everybody's happy.

Back In The Saddle Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:06am

Spence, as I read your question, it seems more about how to determine which official covers which lines than necessarily about the jump. So I'll tackle that one.
  • L and T should be on opposite sides of the floor (other than when the L comes ball side).
  • Each official is responsible for the sideline on his side of the floor. Even when he comes ball side, the L is still responsible for the sideline on his "proper" side of the floor. (Note that there are some common variations on this theme, but I'm talking about the basic principle.)
  • However you got to the side of the floor you're on, you will be responsible for that sideline until you change sides.
  • There are three situations that can force officials to change sides: 1) Jump ball, 2) Free throw, 3) Throw-in.
  • The jump ball is as you describe. The non-tossing official (no longer has to be the U) will be responsible for the sideline on the table side.
  • Free throw administration may require the officials to change sides from where they were.
  • A throw-in may require a change of sides as the administering official goes to the spot (or near the spot if bouncing the ball) and his partner goes opposite.
  • Other than that, you do not normally change sides. But never say never.

Spence Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 543704)
Spence, as I read your question, it seems more about how to determine which official covers which lines than necessarily about the jump. So I'll tackle that one.
  • L and T should be on opposite sides of the floor (other than when the L comes ball side).
  • Each official is responsible for the sideline on his side of the floor. Even when he comes ball side, the L is still responsible for the sideline on his "proper" side of the floor. (Note that there are some common variations on this theme, but I'm talking about the basic principle.)
  • However you got to the side of the floor you're on, you will be responsible for that sideline until you change sides.
  • There are three situations that can force officials to change sides: 1) Jump ball, 2) Free throw, 3) Throw-in.
  • The jump ball is as you describe. The non-tossing official (no longer has to be the U) will be responsible for the sideline on the table side.
  • Free throw administration may require the officials to change sides from where they were.
  • A throw-in may require a change of sides as the administering official goes to the spot (or near the spot if bouncing the ball) and his partner goes opposite.
  • Other than that, you do not normally change sides. But never say never.

You are correct in my reason for questioning being both jump ball and afterwards.

FT: 2-man - what determines the positioning of the lead and trail in regards to sideline? Trail always opposite table? Give me some examples of when a FT may require switching sides.

Spence Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:13am

Let me ask one more positioning type question.

The manual says that officials always switch positions after a foul. Is that 100% or , like the thinking on the jump ball, a "usually?"

For example, I'm trail and call a foul. I report it to the table. Do I then become the lead and administer the FT? Or , in that situation, do we not switch in order to keep the game moving?

bob jenkins Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence (Post 543719)
Let me ask one more positioning type question.

The manual says that officials always switch positions after a foul. Is that 100% or , like the thinking on the jump ball, a "usually?"

For example, I'm trail and call a foul. I report it to the table. Do I then become the lead and administer the FT? Or , in that situation, do we not switch in order to keep the game moving?


The "by the book" two man switch refers to "ends of the court" not to T or L.

IOW, if you're closer to the "north" end line, then after either of you calls a foul, you'll be closer to the "south" end line. Whether you become L or T depends on the type of foul and how it's inbounded, etc.

Some organizations have "no long switch". So, if there is a foul called against the offensive team, and no FTs to be shot, don't switch. Just stay where you are, just as if the offensive team commited a violation.

Beyond that, it's difficult to describe (and understand) in words. You need to get to a clinic and / or watch a powerpoint presentation.

Spence Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 543722)
The "by the book" two man switch refers to "ends of the court" not to T or L.

IOW, if you're closer to the "north" end line, then after either of you calls a foul, you'll be closer to the "south" end line. Whether you become L or T depends on the type of foul and how it's inbounded, etc.

Some organizations have "no long switch". So, if there is a foul called against the offensive team, and no FTs to be shot, don't switch. Just stay where you are, just as if the offensive team commited a violation.

Beyond that, it's difficult to describe (and understand) in words. You need to get to a clinic and / or watch a powerpoint presentation.

Thanks, Bob. Let me make sure I'm following:

1. I'm the lead , call a foul underneath the basket in the FC. Since I have to go the reporting area to report it, we switch.

2. I'm trail. Call a foul near the division line on the defense. I'm in the reporting area so I stay there.

Smitty Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:42am

In my association we switch on every foul.

Camron Rust Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence (Post 543724)
Thanks, Bob. Let me make sure I'm following:

1. I'm the lead , call a foul underneath the basket in the FC. Since I have to go the reporting area to report it, we switch.

2. I'm trail. Call a foul near the division line on the defense. I'm in the reporting area so I stay there.


#1: correct.

#2: not correct. You would be come the lead.

Spence Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 543727)

#2: not correct. You would be come the lead.

Do you say switch because you subscribe to the "always switch - no exceptions" theory ?

Smitty Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spence (Post 543730)
Do you say switch because you subscribe to the "always switch - no exceptions" theory ?

Regardless of the "no long switch" option, the situation you mentioned doesn't fall under what would be a long switch. A foul on the defense would always require a switch.


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