T'able offense?

[fiasco]

Yeah, yeah I know this is men's rec league, and this stuff is to be expected but I still need help in knowing if my T was justified last night.

I have a history with this particular team. Their captain has it made up in his mind that I have it out for his team and will screw them over at every opportunity. I asked the rec league commissioner to not schedule me for their games, but last night they needed someone to fill in and I agreed not looking at the schedule and not wanting to leave someone hanging.

So, early on in the game my partner and I are trying to clean up hacking and reaching in on the perimeter. There were a lot of fouls called, on both teams. I called two quick fouls on this captain. The first one, he raises his hand in the air, claiming the foul. The second one, he glares at me while I'm taking the ball out of bounds. I ignore him.

The rest of the players pick up on the fact that my partner and I are calling fouls on reaching in and hacking, handchecking on the perimeter. They adjust their play. The captain does not. He continues his aggressive defense and I call him for a third foul. It sucks, yes, to have called three fouls on this guy, all from me, in the first half. But my hands are tied as...well...he keeps fouling.

Now he's really getting steamed. He glares at me hard core and just keeps muttering "unbelievable" for everyone to hear. I ignore him again and go back to my business.

Two plays later an opponent of his grabs a rebound and the captain comes over top of him and whacks his arm, sending the ball out of bounds. I call another foul. He huffs and puffs and goes over to the scorers table after I report the foul.

I thought he was subbing out, but apparently not as he comes walking directly towards me and says "Good job, buddy. That's 4."

He has, in past games, directly accused me of calling fouls on his team to favor the opposing team.

So I whack him. 5 fouls, he's gone. He grabs his stuff, walks right past me and yells "Well, you got what you wanted."

The first three fouls were completely justified, IMO. The fourth foul...well, it was borderline, I guess, I could have just called out of bounds but he didn't touch the ball at all, and he hit his arm, causing the ball to go out of bounds. So, it was either out of bounds on the opposing team or a foul (his 4th). A crappy situation but I think I handled it the best I could.

I appreciate your feedback.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by fiasco

"Good job, buddy. That's 4."

IMO, that's a T starting at competitive 3rd grade girls rec leagues and upwards. Good call.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by fiasco

He glares at me hard core and just keeps muttering "unbelievable" for everyone to hear. I ignore him again and go back to my business.

I thought he was subbing out, but apparently not as he comes walking directly towards me and says "Good job, buddy. That's 4."

It sounds from your description as though the only things he said about the fouls were "unbelievable" and the "good job" line. It doesn't sound profane or abusive to me. It's obviously disrespectful to a degree, but I think that personally I would not have given the T.

I think you may have had a chance to head the whole situation off by addressing him after the "unbelievable" comments: "Look, I'm not out to get you, but I'm not going to put up with your commentary." Something like that might have helped the situation.

Of course, I don't know you or him, and maybe addressing him directly would've given him an excuse to explode at you. Only you were there to know about that.

Having said all that, it's men's league and you should put up with zero BS.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I appreciate your feedback.

It's the player's job to adjust to the officiating. As long as you're consistent, no one should have any complaints.

Just keep calling 'em...and dumping him. Don't let him intimidate you, which is what he is trying to do. He's a typical rec league warrior, is all. Don't worry about him.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

It sounds from your description as though the only things he said about the fouls were "unbelievable" and the "good job" line. It doesn't sound profane or abusive to me. It's obviously disrespectful to a degree, but I think that personally I would not have given the T.

I think you may have had a chance to head the whole situation off by addressing him after the "unbelievable" comments: "Look, I'm not out to get you, but I'm not going to put up with your commentary." Something like that might have helped the situation.

Of course, I don't know you or him, and maybe addressing him directly would've given him an excuse to explode at you. Only you were there to know about that.

Having said all that, it's men's league and you should put up with zero BS.

I hear you. I just gave up on trying to reason with him last year. I had those types of conversations with him and his teammates, but it didn't do any good, so I just ignore them and T'em up if they cross over the line.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I hear you. I just gave up on trying to reason with him last year. I had those types of conversations with him and his teammates, but it didn't do any good, so I just ignore them and T'em up if they cross over the line.

Then I have zero problem with the T. There's a time for talk and a time to blow the whistle, and if you know that the talking won't help. . .

Originally Posted by fiasco

I have a history with this particular team. Their captain has it made up in his mind that I have it out for his team and will screw them over at every opportunity. I asked the rec league commissioner to not schedule me for their games, but last night they needed someone to fill in and I agreed not looking at the schedule and not wanting to leave someone hanging.

What's worked for me @ the wreck level is to have a pre-game conversation with the player/team who has a misconceived perception about why I am there... THE GAME!

So, early on in the game my partner and I are trying to clean up hacking and reaching in on the perimeter. There were a lot of fouls called, on both teams. I called two quick fouls on this captain. The first one, he raises his hand in the air, claiming the foul. The second one, he glares at me while I'm taking the ball out of bounds. I ignore him.

Good stuff!

The rest of the players pick up on the fact that my partner and I are calling fouls on reaching in and hacking, handchecking on the perimeter.

Not a knock, but I've rarely seen handchecks called in those type of settings. And I'm sure you know that "reaching in" is not a foul.

They adjust their play. The captain does not. He continues his aggressive defense and I call him for a third foul. It sucks, yes, to have called three fouls on this guy, all from me, in the first half. But my hands are tied as...well...he keeps fouling.

We should encourage aggresive play NOT excessive or overly aggresive play...

Now he's really getting steamed. He glares at me hard core and just keeps muttering "unbelievable" for everyone to hear. I ignore him again and go back to my business.

Selective listening is a great tool!

Two plays later an opponent of his grabs a rebound and the captain comes over top of him and whacks his arm, sending the ball out of bounds. I call another foul. He huffs and puffs and goes over to the scorers table after I report the foul.

I thought he was subbing out, but apparently not as he comes walking directly towards me and says "Good job, buddy. That's 4."

He has, in past games, directly accused me of calling fouls on his team to favor the opposing team.

So I whack him. 5 fouls, he's gone. He grabs his stuff, walks right past me and yells "Well, you got what you wanted."

The first three fouls were completely justified, IMO. The fourth foul...well, it was borderline, I guess, I could have just called out of bounds but he didn't touch the ball at all, and he hit his arm, causing the ball to go out of bounds. So, it was either out of bounds on the opposing team or a foul (his 4th). A crappy situation but I think I handled it the best I could.

I've learned that we should call the violation & give it to the right team as opposed to calling the foul in that sitch (especially if you know the foul situation). If there are any complaints, I tell them it's white ball or a foul on YOU... they tend to be appreciative when explained like that

I appreciate your feedback.

Just a couple questions:
1. Did you & your partner switch after fouls?
2. Do you attempt to talk the players out of fouls/violations? ie; easy... straight... hands... lane, etc.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Just a couple questions:
1. Did you & your partner switch after fouls?
2. Do you attempt to talk the players out of fouls/violations? ie; easy... straight... hands... lane, etc.

1. Yeah, in fact we made a point to talk about that at the beginning of the game. A lot of times we tend to get a little lazy because it's rec league, but with this team we made sure to switch. I just had the luck of being in position to call the fouls.
2. Every single night I utter the phrase "Don't use your hands to (fill in the blank)" about a thousand times. Last night was no different.

I'm convinced this guy is just out to be a martyr at this point.

I hate when that happens, we switch & I still end up making the call on the same team/player. Sometimes it is what it is...

Some guys just don't belong on the wood. Way 2 take care of buisness!!

[IREFU2]

Sounds like the opposite of Homearama - WHACK A RAMA!!!!! Good job!

[fiasco]

Thanks for all the feedback.

One of the things that really amuses me is how these players actually think that I could give a crap who wins these meaningless games.

[JS 20]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Thanks for all the feedback.

One of the things that really amuses me is how these players actually think that I could give a crap who wins these meaningless games.

It's not meaningless to them. Just something to keep in mind. Might be small time to the officials, but for some of those players, the most exciting thing they do all week.

Originally Posted by JS 20

It's not meaningless to them. Just something to keep in mind. Might be small time to the officials, but for some of those players, the most exciting thing they do all week.

I know I looked forward to Wednesday nights when I played in mens leagues... and boy was I bad to the refs
Just like the no-skilled 8th grade girls games I worked last night... it meant the world to them.

Glad you addressed that JS 20, we should treat them all the same as far as respecting the GAME & it's participants.
But I'm certain this is what fiasco really meant:

One of the things that really amuses me is how these players actually think that I could give a crap who wins these meaningless games.

[Adam]

Given everything you've said, looks justified to me. I wouldn't ask off his games, though.

Some times, you just have to play whack-a-mole until the moles all go away.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I know I looked forward to Wednesday nights when I played in mens leagues... and boy was I bad to the refs
Just like the no-skilled 8th grade girls games I worked last night... it meant the world to them.

Glad you addressed that JS 20, we should treat them all the same as far as respecting the GAME & it's participants.
But I'm certain this is what fiasco really meant:

One of the things that really amuses me is how these players actually think that I could give a crap who wins these meaningless games.

Yeah I hear you.

I treat them the same. It just blows me away sometimes how seriously they take it. But I try to take my job seriously, so...