Discretion of officials.....

[grunewar]

The article (below) is about the officiating/decision at the BYU/Washington football game last weekend, but deals with several issues we talk about regularly on the Forum - when to call the foul/violation and when not to. Must you call it or is there judgment involved? I thought it was an interesting read. From the article:

"The rulebook is there to give you guidelines to officiate," Quick said. "But it's no secret that, within those rules, there are some gray areas. There are a lot of factors that go into whether you throw that flag or not."

The officiating crew making the call against Locker, didn't see it, or call it, that way.

"After scoring the touchdown, the player threw the ball into the air and we are required, by rule, to assess a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty," Pac-10 referee Larry Farina said in a statement. "It is a celebration rule that we are required to call. It was not a judgment call."

Entire article is at:

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/co...asp?CID=849523

[Tio]

That penalty flag in the BYU/Washington game was horrible. I watched the entire game and Jake Locker had just capped a 76 yard last minute drive. He was not showing anybody up, nor attempting to draw attention to himself. He is known as an excellent sport and never given officials problems. The spirit of that rule is to penalize taunting or showmanship a la Chad Ocho-cinco.

There would have been no complaints from BYU had no flag been thrown. Our rules are guidelines many of which do have gray areas in which great officials can interpret the spirit of the rule and properly apply it to the action on the field.

We witnessed yet another reason why Pac-10 football officiating is hands-down the worst of all BCS conference staffs.

[Adam]

Rule may be guidelines, but when you're told certain rules are not judgment calls, as NCAA fb officials have been told with this particular rule, then those rules rise above mere "guidelines."

Originally Posted by Tio

We witnessed yet another reason why Pac-10 football officiating is hands-down the worst of all BCS conference staffs.

And this makes you come off a little arrogant.

[BillyMac]

As a basketball official, who deals with intent and purpose of the rules all the time, I have had more than a passing interest in this situation. I'm not a football official, so I had to do a little research before coming up with an opinion.

For those of you who didn't see the play, here's a video:
http://ballhype.com/video/byu_vs_was..._last_seconds/

Here are some statements that I picked out of several reports regarding this situation from the internet:

The NCAA and their officiating and rules committee sent out a DVD at the beginning of the season to cover “points of emphasis” for officiating in the upcoming season, and yet again, the ridiculous unsportsmanlike rule was covered, along with the edict to increase the strictness and frequency of its’ enforcement. The unsportsmanlike rule in the UW/BYU game was enforced exactly as the NCAA has demanded.

"After scoring the touchdown, the player threw the ball into the air and we are required, by rule, to assess a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty," Pac-10 referee Larry Farina said in a statement. "It is a celebration rule that we are required to call. It was not a judgment call."

Penalizing a team for excessive celebration is particularly tricky. The intent of the rule, after all, is to crack down on the showboating that continues to filter its way from the NFL into the college game. Officials are encouraged to throw flags when they feel as if players are taunting their opponents or "rubbing it in" after a touchdown or big hit. Things seem to backfire, though, when someone such as Locker gets punished for showing a little innocent exuberance during the climax of a game.

NCAA Rule 9, Section 2, Article 2c states that a player can be penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct for "throwing the ball high into the air."

Officials can often prevent excessive celebration infractions. They're encouraged to get as close as they can to a player after he scores a touchdown and demand the ball before he gets a chance to spike it or sling it.

Connecticut coach Randy Edsall, who is a member of the NCAA football rules committee, issued an impassioned defense today of Saturday's controversial call in the BYU-Washington game. If you didn't see it, quarterback Jake Locker tossed the ball over his shoulder and celebrated with his teammates in the end zone after Washington scored a touchdown in the final seconds to get within a point. The officials penalized Locker and the Huskies 15 yards for excessive celebration, and then BYU blocked the long PAT attempt to hold on for the victory. The call has been criticized coast to coast. "I saw all that and I don't know why everybody got upset," Edsall said. "It's a rule. You can't do that. It's specifically stated in the rulebook that you can't throw the ball up. Do you feel bad for the kid? Yeah you do, but it's part of the rule. "I try to tell my team, when you score, just hand the ball to the nearest official. That's all you're supposed to do. We want the officials to enforce the rules. Well, the rule's right there in the rulebook." When asked if the official should have used his judgment and let the play go, Edsall said the celebration rule has "been harped on as a point of emphasis" for the past several months. The official, Edsall said, had no choice but to call it or risk being suspended. "I don't think it's taken any fun out of the game," Edsall said. "It just bothers me sometimes to hear people come on TV and say, 'How can you call that?' Well, the guy was doing his job." Pittsburgh coach Dave Wannstedt said he watched the replay of the call and made sure to show it to his players so they wouldn't make the same mistake this season.

Research completed, here's my take on this issue:

I have a lot of respect for Coach Edsall. He's considered a sports icon here in Connecticut, third only to Jim Calhoun (UCONN Mens Basketball), and Geno Auriemma (UCONN Womens Basketball), so I value his opinion.

My opinion: The NCAA made not calling this penalty by the officials very difficult by making it a point of emphasis this year, even including the specific play it on a DVD provided to all officials. This seems to make this situation a nonjudgment issue, kind of like our NFHS casebook play situations. However, although I agree with the philosophy of the unsporting rule, I personally disagree with this specific call. This wasn't unsporting, it was a spontaneous reaction by a by excited young man, kind of like our 10-4-4 exception, "remaining seated on the bench unless spontaneously reacting to an outstanding play by a member of their team and immediately returning to their seats". But, I believe that the officials didn't screw up, the NCAA screwed up by making this rule seem to be a nonjudgment call. The NCAA should rethink their unsporting rule and allow the officials to use some judgment in these unsporting calls.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Tio

That penalty flag in the BYU/Washington game was horrible.


We witnessed yet another reason why Pac-10 football officiating is hands-down the worst of all BCS conference staffs.

Another fanboy shows up......



Same old, same old.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The NCAA should rethink their unsporting rule and allow the officials to use some judgment in these unsporting calls.

Bad rules don't equate to bad officiating, no matter what some fanboys think.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Bad rules don't equate to bad officiating, no matter what some fanboys think.

Jurassic Referee: I can't figure out if you're agreeing, or disagreeing with me, which is surprising because I'm usually 100% sure regarding the intent of your posts, but in case you're disagreeing with me, I'm not a fanboy, I don't follow football, unless you mean all nonofficials are fanboys.

Also, you're taking a big chance posting an image that might be construed as extraneous. Haven't you been paying attention to recent posts? You might be driving some officials away from the Forum.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Tio

I watched the entire game and Jake Locker had just capped a 76 yard last minute drive. He was not showing anybody up, nor attempting to draw attention to himself. He is known as an excellent sport and never given officials problems.

And all of that is supposed to matter in some way?

Originally Posted by Tio

The spirit of that rule is to penalize taunting or showmanship a la Chad Ocho-cinco.

No, the NCAA does not want players throwing balls high into the air after any down during the game.

Originally Posted by Tio

There would have been no complaints from BYU had no flag been thrown.

The BYU radio guy said immediately that he would have been complaining had the foul not been called. Also ESPN would have been all over the officails. PAC 10 officials throwing another game, remember Oregon/Oklahoma? There is a reason ESPN wasn't showing a zoomed out shot showing how high the ball actually went, that would have made it obvious how good the call was. ESPN wants controversy. If the officials hadn't thrown the flag they would be on TV with the rule on the screen blasting the officials for ignoring POEs.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Also, you're taking a big chance posting an image that might be construed as extraneous. Haven't you been paying attention to recent posts? You might be driving some officials away from the Forum.

I post the odd image/gif...either to make a point or to have a little fun. If the mods want to get rid of 'em, well, that's their prerogative. Over the years the mods have probably deleted more of my posts that you have made. I ain't gonna whine about it or second guess 'em...or worry about it either.

[whistleone]

Originally Posted by LDUB

There is a reason ESPN wasn't showing a zoomed out shot showing how high the ball actually went, that would have made it obvious how good the call was. ESPN wants controversy. If the officials hadn't thrown the flag they would be on TV with the rule on the screen blasting the officials for ignoring POEs.

You can tell how high the ball went by the length of time it took for the ball to return back to the screen. The ball goes straight up and hits/nearly hits the quarterback in question in the head. All the blame keeps coming back on the officials. Where's the finger pointing at the linemen who failed to block the BYU players who ended up blocking the PAT attempt?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I post the odd image/gif...either to make a point or to have a little fun. If the mods want to get rid of 'em, well, that's their prerogative. Over the years the mods have probably deleted more of my posts that you have made. I ain't gonna whine about it or second guess 'em...or worry about it either.

I finally have the definitive photo of Jurassic Referee:



"He roamed, through the west."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Tio

The spirit of that rule is to penalize taunting or showmanship a la Chad Ocho-cinco.

Were you there when the coaches on the rule committee added the specific wording to the rule that addressed throwing the ball high into the air? Or are you saying the rule should only apply to WR's and players from the Da U?

Originally Posted by Tio

There would have been no complaints from BYU had no flag been thrown. Our rules are guidelines many of which do have gray areas in which great officials can interpret the spirit of the rule and properly apply it to the action on the field.

Not according to the BYU announcers. They were looking for a flag immediately.

Mr. Tio, when would you flag a player for throwing the ball high in the air after a touchdown? And if a player dunked a basketball with 5 seconds left to put his team up by 1 point would you let him do a chin-up and/or slap the backboard? Would you let him do the shirt jesture? Or pull his shirt over his head?

[BillyMac]

"Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated.
It satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect.
It is at the same time rewarding and maddening-it is without
a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented."
Arnold Palmer

"Golf is a good walk spoiled."
Mark Twain

[JRutledge]

Whatever you think of the rule, the rule accomplished exactly what they wanted it to do. I bet you will not see another player do what Locker did the rest of the year.

BTW, can we please stop saying that judgment is not apart of this rule or other rules like it. Of course there is some judgment. But when you throw the ball more than 20 feet in the air, it makes that judgment a little easier to make.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Call was correct.