What do you have???

[mu4scott]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why not?

Whether he was moving is not relevant. Once he establishes legal guarding position, he can move laterally or backwards. It only takes a split second to establish LGP before he can continue moving.

Did he ever get two feet on the floor, in front of the shooter, before the shooter leapt?

Breaking it down screen by screen you can clearly see the defender moving into the path of the airborne shooter while he is in the air. Also I don't see why his two feet being on the ground would be definitive of it being one way or the other. What if he had two feet planted and was leaning w/ his body into the shooter?

As far as the "incidental contact" part goes that can be debated. I'm sure most contact on the court is incidental, but it's still a foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mu4scott

Breaking it down screen by screen you can clearly see the defender moving into the path of the airborne shooter while he is in the air. Also I don't see why his two feet being on the ground would be definitive of it being one way or the other. What if he had two feet planted and was leaning w/ his body into the shooter?

For now, I'll take your word for it. My point stands, however. Here are the options I see:
1. Blocking foul.
2. no-call.

Since a frame-by-frame analysis is required to determine which way to go, the "wrong" call is acceptable, IMO.

Originally Posted by mu4scott

As far as the "incidental contact" part goes that can be debated. I'm sure most contact on the court is incidental, but it's still a foul.

Some might consider this statement absurd.
It cannot be incidental and a foul. It's one or the other.

[mu4scott]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Some might consider this statement absurd.
It cannot be incidental and a foul. It's one or the other.

Huh?? Maybe we are not on the same page as far as the word "incidental" is being described. I can think of many instances where a player was called for a foul that was 'incidental".

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mu4scott

Huh?? Maybe we are not on the same page as far as the word "incidental" is being described. I can think of many instances where a player was called for a foul that was 'incidental".

You mean ACCIDENTAL, not incidental. That's the problem.

[mu4scott]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You mean ACCIDENTAL, not incidental. That's the problem.

From dictionary.com

Incidental - happening or likely to happen in an unplanned or subordinate conjunction with something else.

Accidental - happening by chance or accident; not planned; unexpected: an accidental meeting.


What's the difference?

[Adam]

The difference is "incidental" contact is directly defined in the rule book, and it specifically states that incidental contact is not a foul.

"Accidental" is not relevant.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mu4scott

From dictionary.com

Incidental - happening or likely to happen in an unplanned or subordinate conjunction with something else.

Accidental - happening by chance or accident; not planned; unexpected: an accidental meeting.


What's the difference?

This is what's callled jargon. When discussing basketball your terminology is important. That is what allows for clear communication between people.
You need to use the NFHS definition, not the dictionary definition.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mu4scott

Huh?? Maybe we are not on the same page as far as the word "incidental" is being described. I can think of many instances where a player was called for a foul that was 'incidental".

Just to reiterate, don't look in the dictionary to define incidental contact. Look in the rule book. Rule 4, if memory serves. They're in alphabetical order.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mu4scott

What if he had two feet planted and was leaning w/ his body into the shooter?

Is the offensive player leaning with his body? If you are going to penalize the defender for leaning, then you better also penalize the offensive player for the same action.

Who is moving into the opponent--the offensive player or the defender?

[mu4scott]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Is the offensive player leaning with his body? If you are going to penalize the defender for leaning, then you better also penalize the offensive player for the same action.

Who is moving into the opponent--the offensive player or the defender?

This is a good point, but I can't penalize the offensive player in this situation for taking a direct path to the basket and the defender moving in his way while he is airborne.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mu4scott

This is a good point, but I can't penalize the offensive player in this situation for taking a direct path to the basket and the defender moving in his way while he is airborne.

If you truly believe that the defender moved into his path AFTER both of his feet left the floor, then a blocking foul is correct.

I don't see that on this play. JMO.

PS I truly appreciate all the work that you put into the pictures. It greatly enhanced the discussion. Thanks.

[mu4scott]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If you truly believe that the defender moved into his path AFTER both of his feet left the floor, then a blocking foul is correct.

I don't see that on this play. JMO.

PS I truly appreciate all the work that you put into the pictures. It greatly enhanced the discussion. Thanks.

I appreciate the spirited discussion. On some level I think we are all here trying to get better. I've learned a lot because of you from this thread.

p.s. I still think your blind as a bat.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mu4scott

p.s. I still think your blind as a bat.

I once had a coach tell me something similar. I replied that might be true, but that my hearing was excellent. He got a technical foul.