Earrings & Liability

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

Opposing coach to #21: See! i TOLD YOU THAT MOVES A TRAVEL!!
#21: No it's not, they didn't call it

Hard to argue with this logic.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Thank you, Tim. This is exactly what an attorney told our group.

We had the same legal feedback.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Tim C

In the upcoming November issue of "High School Today" there is a legal column written by Lee Green (Baker University Professor of Law) that covers this issue.

There is no such thing as a waiver of liability concerning high school rules. In any sport, at any level, if NFHS Rules are used there can be no waiver. It is not legal to do so.

The attempt at a waiver places the official in the position of responsibility.

Do not accept this practice.

Regards,

Thank you. If you have an advance copy, please send me a PM. I definitely want this.

I will accept the lumps tossed at me for letting this go. I know that was correct when I told the girl she could not play...and I should have told the TD the same thing. No jewlery. No waivers.

The last time I told a girl she could not play with earrings, (younger girl; travel league; no TD to challenge me) she left the court in tears, but somehow returned a few minutes later without the earrings. I was quite surprised this varsity player (probably 16- or 17-years-old) didn't just remove the earrings. I have been told repeatedly that even new piercings do not close up in an hour or two.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

I actually had this exact conversation with an official, at a High School Varsity level summer jamboree. It actually went like this:

Y2Koach: Isn't that a travel
Official: haha, yes it is
Y2Koach: He did it again, haha
Official: I saw that
Y2Koach: Call it then, he's getting past our guy every time!
Official: I know, but it's just summer ball. If I called every travel, he'd have like 10 and this game would take forever
Y2Koach: Do you have somewhere to go???
Official: That's enough, coach

hilarious...

I must be missing something here. Does not the clock run during the summer? Whether I call 80 fouls and violations, the game moves pretty much at the same pace does it not?

Actually the more fouls (or violations) I call, the less I have to move.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

... you'd need to get one from every parent of every child playing in that game.

That was also my thought when reading the OP. He desired a waiver only from the player wearing the earrings, but what if another participant objected to being put in the dangerous situation of competing against or with such a player?

It isn't just about protecting the player wearing the earrings. Don't the other players on the court have to be protected from the possibility of suffering an injury from someone else's jewelry? Why wasn't the OP concerned with getting them to sign waivers as well?

[Mark Padgett]

Even in our local kids rec league, this is an inviolate safety rule. I once told a 7th grade girl she didn't have to take her earrings off as long as she took her ears off. I think she thought I was serious.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That was also my thought when reading the OP. He desired a waiver only from the player wearing the earrings, but what if another participant objected to being put in the dangerous situation of competing against or with such a player?

It isn't just about protecting the player wearing the earrings. Don't the other players on the court have to be protected from the possibility of suffering an injury from someone else's jewelry? Why wasn't the OP concerned with getting them to sign waivers as well?

As stated in the OP, I asked the TD to sign the waiver as well as the girl's parent.

Your point is correct. Of course, none of the other girls complained nor did their parents or coach.

There is something at play with girl's basketball that this problem comes up repeatedly. TD's at many levels are not willing to stand up to the few players who want it all ways -- play; wear what they want; no responsibility for their actions. Overgeneralization? Yes. But it comes up often enough that there is more than a little truth to it.

[BillyMac]

My opinion:

If an official fails to notice a player warming up, or playing with an earring: Bad officiating, but probably not negligent.

If an official fails to notice a player warming up, or playing, with a taped earlobe: Bad officiating, but not negligent.

If an official notices a player warming up, or playing with an earring, and doesn't act upon it: Bad officiating, negligent.

If an official notices a a player warming up, or playing with a taped earlobe, and doesn't ask what's under the tape: Bad officiating, but not negligent.

If an official notices a player warming up, or playing with a taped earlobe, asks the player about it, gets a reply, "It's an earring", and doesn't act upon it: Bad officiating, negligent.

If an official notices a player warming up, or playing with a taped earlobe, asks the player about it, gets a reply, "It's a cut", accepts that reply, and later find that the player lied, had an earring, and was injured because of that earring: Good officiating, not negligent.

If an official officiates in a game using "hybrid" rules, i.e. number of fouls to bonus, running time, etc., and these "hybrid" rules are written down for all to see, and one of the "hybrid" rules is that players may wear earrings: Stick a copy of the rules in your bag, and "When in Rome ...".

[JRutledge]

I would not go as far to suggest something an official does not see when it comes to jewelry that it is bad officiating. Not all jewelry is easily seen. It is the coach's responsibility to make sure their players are not wearing illegal equipment. That is why we ask them that stupid question before the game. We may not easily see what is on a player's ear because of their hair style, the color of the player and the color of the jewelry. I know even when looking for things, it can be difficult to always see jewelry on a player. I am not going to ever fault an official for missing something that is often very small and harder to see from a distance.

And do not get me started on hair beads.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would not go as far to suggest something an official does not see when it comes to jewelry that it is bad officiating. Not all jewelry is easily seen. We may not easily see what is on a player's ear because of their hair style, the color of the player and the color of the jewelry. I know even when looking for things, it can be difficult to always see jewelry on a player. I am not going to ever fault an official for missing something that is often very small and harder to see from a distance.

You're right. What I really meant is that is the responsibility of the officials to observe players warming up, looking for jewelry, casts, uniforms, headbands, wrist bands, duplicate numbers, illegal numbers, etc. There's a reason why the NFHS wants officials on the floor at least 15 minutes before the starting time. If we look for these infractions, we're doing our job, even if we miss something. If we don't look for these infractions, we're not doing our job. If we're daydreaming, flirting with the cute mom in the first row, or talking to the fans, we're not doing our job, and that's bad officiating.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

As stated in the OP, I asked the TD to sign the waiver as well as the girl's parent.

Your point is correct. Of course, none of the other girls complained nor did their parents or coach.

There is something at play with girl's basketball that this problem comes up repeatedly. TD's at many levels are not willing to stand up to the few players who want it all ways -- play; wear what they want; no responsibility for their actions. Overgeneralization? Yes. But it comes up often enough that there is more than a little truth to it.

Bay, I wasn't trying to pick on you or anything. Hopefully, you didn't take my comments as personal. They were not intended to be.

I was merely making the point that while whoever happened to be the official in this situation (in this case it was you) made the extra effort to insist upon and secure a waiver from the player wearing the illegal item, it struck me as odd that permission from other players who had to compete with this player wearing such an item was not also solicited and obtained. It seemed to me that the risk to which they were being exposed was mistakenly forgotten about.

So that's the only point that I was trying to make. In such a situation it is not just about the player wearing the item, but there must be a concern as well for the safety of the other participants. A major reason that the NFHS and NCAA have such rules in place.

I agree that you were put in a difficult situation by your partner, fellow officials, and the tournament director, but please remember that you always have the choice to decline the game/assignment. If you feel strongly enough that a tournament is not doing things the right way, then just don't work that event. Sure you lose out on a few bucks, but you open yourself up to a much bigger problem. Let someone else take that risk if they wish.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You're right. What I really meant is that is the responsibility of the officials to observe players warming up, looking for jewelry, casts, uniforms, headbands, wrist bands, duplicate numbers, illegal numbers, etc. There's a reason why the NFHS wants officials on the floor at least 15 minutes before the starting time. If we look for these infractions, we're doing our job, even if we miss something. If we don't look for these infractions, we're not doing our job. That's bad officiating.

I am not talking about daydreaming. I am talking about how easy it is to miss something like an earring. Unless you have a clear look at something, you might miss it and you can be looking for something. And even things like casts, wristbands and even headbands are not always seen until the game starts. Why, because if they are wearing warm-ups, you might not see things on their arms and not every player wear their headband during warm-ups.

Peace

[BillyMac]

An additional two cents:

I would never tell a player that they had to take off earrings to play. I would tell them that they can't play with earrings.

Also, if I noticed a player warming up, or playing with a taped earlobe, asked the player about it, got a reply, "It's a cut", I would never ask that player to prove it by removing the tape.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am talking about how easy it is to miss something like an earring. Unless you have a clear look at something, you might miss it and you can be looking for something. And even things like casts, wristbands and even headbands are not always seen until the game starts. Why, because if they are wearing warm-ups, you might not see things on their arms and not every player wear their headband during warm-ups.

From Billymac: "You're right. If we look for these infractions, we're doing our job, even if we miss something. If we don't look for these infractions, we're not doing our job."

JRutledge: What part of "You're right" didn't you understand.

I'm sure that we've all observed officials who are wasting their 15 minutes before a game doing things that they're not supposed to be doing, and not doing things they're supposed to be doing. We may miss some infractions due to hair, warmups, etc. but we at least have to make an attempt to look.

I often have a problem noticing metal hair clips during warmups, but when I see them in the game, they can't play with them in their hair.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I must be missing something here. Does not the clock run during the summer? Whether I call 80 fouls and violations, the game moves pretty much at the same pace does it not?

Actually the more fouls (or violations) I call, the less I have to move.

Peace

Yep, you're missing something...stopped clock here for summer league. I'm sure we're not the only place that does stopped clock for summer. We do straight-up rules except for no count of personal fouls and an shortened halftime.