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-   -   Block/Charge:John Adams Theroy (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/46808-block-charge-john-adams-theroy.html)

MOofficial Wed Jul 30, 2008 07:03pm
Block/Charge:John Adams Theroy
 
Just listened to John Adams speak about his theroy on the block charge under the basket. I have never heard it put this way but after he said this it made so much sense.

For those of you who dont know, John is the newly appointed NCAA National Coordiator of Officials, bascially he runs the Tournament in March.

Here is what John said:

The offensive players goal is to try and score the basketball and the job of the defense is to prevent the offense from scoring, then how can the defense be preventing the offense from scoring when standing under the basket trying to take a charge when the ball is out of the offesive players hand for a layup.

Basically what thats saying is that instead of having an arc drawn on the floor, that play is a block everytime. No matter how long they were standing there. After hearing that I fully agree with that philosophy

Nevadaref Wed Jul 30, 2008 07:11pm
So John should just put the NBE arc in and turn the college game into the favor-the-offense pro game. :(

Disappointing that he doesn't acknowledge the defender's attempt to make the offensive player pull up for a short jumper instead of finishing at the rim. Also, although the basket would count in an NCAA mens game if released prior to a charging foul being committed, that offensive player still picks up one of his allotted five fouls. That's certainly a way to discourage the offense from scoring in that manner.

BillyMac Wed Jul 30, 2008 07:24pm
He Also Said This ...
 
Here's my favorite John Adams quote:

"Yesterday the greatest question was decided which ever was debated in America; and a greater perhaps never was, nor will be, decided among men. A resolution was passed without one dissenting colony, that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States."
(July 2, 1776)

JugglingReferee Wed Jul 30, 2008 08:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOofficial
Just listened to John Adams speak about his theroy on the block charge under the basket. I have never heard it put this way but after he said this it made so much sense.

For those of you who dont know, John is the newly appointed NCAA National Coordiator of Officials, bascially he runs the Tournament in March.

Here is what John said:

The offensive players goal is to try and score the basketball and the job of the defense is to prevent the offense from scoring, then how can the defense be preventing the offense from scoring when standing under the basket trying to take a charge when the ball is out of the offesive players hand for a layup.

Basically what thats saying is that instead of having an arc drawn on the floor, that play is a block everytime. No matter how long they were standing there. After hearing that I fully agree with that philosophy
What a piece of garbage. If the NCAA really cared to follow this approach, they would add the NBA circle. I think even in the NBA it's a no-call (or possible charge) if the primary defender is in the RA.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Jul 30, 2008 08:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOofficial
Just listened to John Adams speak about his theroy on the block charge under the basket. I have never heard it put this way but after he said this it made so much sense.

For those of you who dont know, John is the newly appointed NCAA National Coordiator of Officials, bascially he runs the Tournament in March.

Here is what John said:

The offensive players goal is to try and score the basketball and the job of the defense is to prevent the offense from scoring, then how can the defense be preventing the offense from scoring when standing under the basket trying to take a charge when the ball is out of the offesive players hand for a layup.

Basically what thats saying is that instead of having an arc drawn on the floor, that play is a block everytime. No matter how long they were standing there. After hearing that I fully agree with that philosophy

MOfficial:

Are you sure you heard him correctly? I cannot believe that the NCAA Coordinator of Men's Basketball Official would publically make such a grossly inaccurate statement. John Adams has been a basketball official for over 25 years, including over fifteen (15) years as a Division I official. I find it difficult to believe that he would be so ignorant of the definitions of guarding and screening.

"Say it ain't so Joe?"

MTD, Sr.

P.S. If he really did make such a statement I hope that a personal friend of him will have a sit down with him and explain the rule him.

Jurassic Referee Wed Jul 30, 2008 08:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOofficial
Here is what John said:

The offensive players goal is to try and score the basketball and the job of the defense is to prevent the offense from scoring, then how can the defense be preventing the offense from scoring when standing under the basket trying to take a charge when the ball is out of the offesive players hand for a layup.

Basically what thats saying is that instead of having an arc drawn on the floor, that play is a block everytime. No matter how long they were standing there. After hearing that I fully agree with that philosophy
Unfortunately, if he really said that then he is going completely against the current NCAA rules as written. That is completely contrary to what is in the NCAA rulebook. That used to be the Womens' rule and even they changed it to match the Mens rule last year. NCAA rules go by legal guarding position everywhere on the court, including under the baskets.

If he did say that, then that might just make it a tie for the stoopidest statement ever made by any Coordinator anywhere.

I'll believe it when I read it in the rules, an AR or in a rules bulletin.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Jul 30, 2008 08:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Unfortunately, if he really said that then he is going completely against the current NCAA rules as written. That is completely contrary to what is in the NCAA rulebook. That used to be the Womens' rule and even they changed it to match the Mens rule last year. NCAA rules go by legal guarding position everywhere on the court, including under the baskets.

If he did say that, then that might just make it a tie for the stoopidest statement ever made by any Coordinator anywhere.

I'll believe it when I read it in the rules, an AR or in a rules bulletin.

JR:

Read my post. His statement is the statement of someone who has never read a rule book. The women's rules were always the same, it was just Barb Jacobs was as clueless as the former basketball coach that she was and she just said that this was how is was going to be even though she did not know or understand the rule.

MTD, Sr.

Scrapper1 Thu Jul 31, 2008 09:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Unfortunately, if he really said that then he is going completely against the current NCAA rules as written. That is completely contrary to what is in the NCAA rulebook.
That was going to be my comment, as well. Last year's POE on crashes at the basket made it clear that a defender can have LGP anywhere on the floor.

Also, I don't think it's accurate to say that John Adams will "run the tournament" in March. There's a tournament committee that selects the officials for each round and decides where they will go. Obviously the coordinator of officials has serious input into that process; but, on paper at least, he is merely an advisor to the committee. I'm sure someone else has more definitive information about that.

JRutledge Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12am
I love how all those are big and bad here, but you could express your "opinion" at an NCAA Meeting and tell John how "wrong" you feel he is. :D

Peace

JugglingReferee Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I love how all those are big and bad here, but you could express your "opinion" at an NCAA Meeting and tell John how "wrong" you feel he is. :D

Peace
I volunteer since I have nothing to lose! :D I ain't doing any Dx ball anytime in my lifetime, so I'll do it.

JRutledge Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
I volunteer since I have nothing to lose! :D I ain't doing any Dx ball anytime in my lifetime, so I'll do it.
Well, there are a few opportunities to do that. ;)

Peace

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I love how all those are big and bad here, but you could express your "opinion" at an NCAA Meeting and tell John how "wrong" you feel he is. :D

Peace

Rut:

I was not planning on attending the IAABO Fall Rules Interpreters' Meeting in September because Start H.S. has a home football game that Friday night and as vice-president of the athletic boosters I am in charge of the concession stand. But I think I am going to beg my wife (she is the real brains of the concession stand, after all she has a degree in business and I am just a structural engineer) to let me go because I can assure you that if John takes that position at the meeting he will be called upon the carpet by quite a few people who are more learned than me on the subject matter and I consider myself quite learned.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. The college football season is just around the corner. Go Penguins!! Beat the Leathernecks. :D

Scrapper1 Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
the IAABO Fall Rules Interpreters' Meeting in September . . . if John takes that position at the meeting
Why would the NCAA men's Coordinator of Officials be at an IAABO meeting? Did Hank Nichols attend those meetings? :confused:

JugglingReferee Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
I was not planning on attending the IAABO Fall Rules Interpreters' Meeting
Ever met people from Ontario? :) Like TM or GS?

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Why would the NCAA men's Coordinator of Officials be at an IAABO meeting? Did Hank Nichols attend those meetings? :confused:

Hank always attended the meetings (because he was a member of IAABO) in his capacity as Rules Editor and always gave a presentation on the new rules. When Hank became Officials Coordinator, the person (oh my gosh I can't remember who that is right now, I am have a senior moment and am not at home with my rules books) who took his place as Rules Editor would give a presentation on the new rules. Barb Jacobs never came in her capacity as the women's Rules Editor, so Sally Bell (she was a member of IAABO too) would give the presentation or Hank would fill in if Sally could not attend.

MTD, Sr.


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