Blarge

[devdog69]

Regardless of the ways to prevent this from happening, it does happen. I have seen it personally happen three times this year to post-season officials. Once in a high school sub-state game, once in a Ju-co game and in the NCAA tournament I saw it happen in the first round. All three times you had two officials making opposite signals and not once was a double foul called. The primary official took the call from the other official in all three. I do not necessarily agree with the way they are handled, but it may be the quickest way to get going with the game with the least amount of controversy in a terrible situation.

[bigwhistle]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Rut cited several issues that can address prevention. I think he left out the most important. RAISE YOUR FIST! Too many officials go directly to the block signal or the charge signal. If both officials would raise their fist, they would pause, make eye contact as Rut said, and someone would drop.
Two weeks ago, I had this play in a 15&U AAU Girls game, Women's NCAA rules. I'm center and the play was clearly in my area, outisde the paint. The lead blows and gives this huge block signal. I go up with a fist and give him a strong "YOU DUMBA$$!" look!

I took the call and went with the charge. I don't know what in the hell he saw! Fortunately, the fouling team was up 30 and it wasn't a problem. But we had a long debriefing after the game.

Tony,

I don't agree with the way that you handled this situation. The facial expression you gave your partner, not that he didn't deserve it , showed everybody that there was a problem within the crew, which tends to destroy the continuity that is trying to be built. This leads to later opportunities for coaches to attempt to divide and conquer. We have all heard the comments "He's killing us! You need to help him out!" If they see that the crew is not happy with each other, they will try to get an advantage claiming incompetence of the partner, hoping that the ego stroke will get them a call.

The blarge is not addressed in any mechanics manual that I know of. That being said, this is my manner of workig through one. It is discussed in pregame, as Rut suggested should happen.

In a 3 person crew, if both officials give a signal at the spot, they will come together and then the official whose primary had the play will take the call.

If one official signals and the other only had a closed fist, let the official who made the signal have the call. Nobody else knows that the official with only a closed fist had a different call. So this is not a true blarge.

In my pregame, we go over that the outside official needs to not make any signal other than the closed fist immediately. The reason for this is that for many years the Lead has had the call automatically if it was coming to him. Therefore, there is a tendency among too many officials to immediately come out selling the crash without considering that it was not his primary and that the outside partner may have a different call. In an ideal game, there would be 2 fists, eye contact, and then the signal from the official who had primary responsibility for the call.

In a 2 person crew, if a blarge occurs, I yield to the person which the play is coming to.

Once again, these are not in any manual, as the subject is not talked about. Communication is vital, and a breakdown of communication is why blarges happen.

And yes, I have been involved in a blarge before.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by bigwhistle
Two weeks ago, I had this play in a 15&U AAU Girls game, Women's NCAA rules. I'm center and the play was clearly in my area, outisde the paint. The lead blows and gives this huge block signal. I go up with a fist and give him a strong "YOU DUMBA$$!" look!

Tony,

I don't agree with the way that you handled this situation. The facial expression you gave your partner, not that he didn't deserve it , showed everybody that there was a problem within the crew, which tends to destroy the continuity that is trying to be built. This leads to later opportunities for coaches to attempt to divide and conquer. We have all heard the comments "He's killing us! You need to help him out!" If they see that the crew is not happy with each other, they will try to get an advantage claiming incompetence of the partner, hoping that the ego stroke will get them a call. [/B][/QUOTE]

bigwhistle, did you not note see the smiley face after the comment? Good grief guys, give me a break! It was a joke!

___________________________________

"Humor. It is a diffcult concept." - Lt. Saavik, Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan

[stripes]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Real easy.

1. Call your primary. If you call your primary, you will know when your partner had a better look at at call than you did. Or you will understand that is their area, and you better be sure before you call anything.

2. Make eye contact. If you are calling something that is out of your primary or in a grey area, know that your partner might be making a call too. Then when you make eye contact, revert back to who's primary the call was made out of.

3. Pregame, pregame, pregame. You better talk about these issues. When you talk about these issues, you know what to do when they happen.

These might not solve the problem, but it will make you more prepared.

Peace

While I appreciate your response, this is specifically not what I addressed. The things you mentioned are "how we go about trying to avoid the call/problem". I agree wholeheartedly that we should do #1,2 and 3 you mentioned, but how do you fix the problem if it does happen because someone screws up?

To those who answered the question, thanks for the responses. This has not been a big problem for me in the past, but after watching some others butcher it, I wanted to have something ready in my bag of tricks if it did happen to me.

[BktBallRef]

stripes, I think, in an NF or NCAA Men's game, you're probably going to have to call a double foul if one official makes the mistake that my partner made and goes immediately to the preliminary. I reference the Regional Championship Game between Iowa St. and Mich. State a copule of years ago. Late in the gamean MSU player drives the lane on the break. An ISU player moved in from of him after he had left the floor. The center, who's call it was, went up with his fist. However, the lead came running out from the endline, pointing the other way. The two got together and seemed intent on calling one foul. But the R, Curtis Shaw, came in and a double foul was called. Bob Jenkins cited the NF Case Book play, which calls for the same thing to be done. Double foul.

Hope that helps!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by dblref

Bob:

My reading of 4.19.7C says the ball "has been released". I don't see that in the original post. Are you reading this differently? Just curious.

That part of the case has nothing to do with the ruling -- it's just there to show that there can be a PC foul in NFHS rules even though the player no longer has the ball.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by stripes

While I appreciate your response, this is specifically not what I addressed. The things you mentioned are "how we go about trying to avoid the call/problem". I agree wholeheartedly that we should do #1,2 and 3 you mentioned, but how do you fix the problem if it does happen because someone screws up?

To those who answered the question, thanks for the responses. This has not been a big problem for me in the past, but after watching some others butcher it, I wanted to have something ready in my bag of tricks if it did happen to me.

I really do not know what you want then. Do you want to know how to avoid it, or what the proper ruling is. Because in the rules, if one official has a block, another has a PC foul, you can have a double foul? I do not have my casebook right in front of me, but you can call a double foul in this situation. I will go get it and get back to you.

Peace

[stripes]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I really do not know what you want then. Do you want to know how to avoid it, or what the proper ruling is. Because in the rules, if one official has a block, another has a PC foul, you can have a double foul? I do not have my casebook right in front of me, but you can call a double foul in this situation. I will go get it and get back to you.

Peace

I want to know, when the s**t hits the fan, what do you do? And have you used something successful? Have you had something blow up on you?

[rockyroad]

I have had this situation several times in the past...in the NCAA games I do - only women's - it is easy...we are required to get together and decide whose primary the play was in...in HS games, I can remember two instances of this happening - the first took me completely by surprise and my partner had already signalled and was on his way to the table before I realized he had called a charge (I had the block) - I had closed and stayed with the players on the floor to make sure nothing happened...result: couldn't do anything but have a LONG talk in the post-game...the second time it happened, it didn't take me by surprise and I handled it better - went to my partner rapidly - he had signalled block as T and I had charge as L (play coming to me)...we talked for about 10 seconds - condensed version was - "Hey, we pre-gamed this. It was coming to me so I'm taking it, ok?" "No problem - will you talk to coach? "I've got him partner"...reported the PC foul, talked to coach about 10 seconds - "Hey, he called a block" "Yep Coach, but it's my call and I had a better angle than he did" "Oh, OK"...could have been worse, I know, but the fact that the coach saw us talking and both nodding our heads vigorously at each other while talking seemed to calm him down...if he starts howling after your explanation, get away from him...T if needed... by book, could/should we have called a double foul - probably, but in the angle I had there was no way it was a block...sorry this is so long...

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by stripes

I want to know, when the s**t hits the fan, what do you do? And have you used something successful? Have you had something blow up on you?

I guess I do not know what you want. You revert back to the things I said. Who's primary was the call made in? Did you discuss this during your pregame? And why did you not make eye contact?

I always revert back to that. I alway try to discuss this in pregame so that if this does happen, we have discussed it in some way shape or form. And it might be different based on the officials I am working with. That is what I would do and what I do do. Other than that, there is no magic potion or formula to make things go smoothly. Because if you find yourself in this predicament, things have already gotten way out of hand. I do not know if that helps, but that is the best I can do right now.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by stripes

I want to know, when the s**t hits the fan, what do you do? And have you used something successful? Have you had something blow up on you?

To me, the key to getting out of these alive is to
acknowledge there are 2 whistles - keep your fist in the
air, huddle quickly, make a decision & go with it. Spend
a few seconds talking to the coach but let him know it's
about judgement & position and acknowledge that he might
believe he's getting screwed. Then get the ball back in
play. I never had a double foul on a blarge, thank
goodness!

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by bigwhistle
[QUOTE

In my pregame, we go over that the outside official needs to not make any signal other than the closed fist immediately. The reason for this is that for many years the Lead has had the call automatically if it was coming to him. Therefore, there is a tendency among too many officials to immediately come out selling the crash without considering that it was not his primary and that the outside partner may have a different call

While this is what we have to do, I wish they would change this. I think the L needs to held acountable for calling out of his area. Too many L's make accross the paint calls that are bad calls or don't give the C a chance to make the call. The L needs to learn to trust the C. Now if the C missed the call then the L can come late.

Communication is vital, and a breakdown of communication is why blarges happen.

We always communicate, "trust your partners and call your area" in pregames. This is more an official's lack of focus on what his crew's responsibilities, more so the official who called out of his area.

[Todd Springer]

IF YOU WILL FOCUS ON REFEREEING THE DEFENSE, THIS CALL WILL BE EASIER TO MAKE. IF A BLARGE DOES HAPPEN, THE TWO OFFICIALS NEED TO COME TOGETHER AND TALK. THE OFFICIAL WHO HAD THE PLAY IN HIS/HER PRIMARY NEEDS TO TAKE IT TO THE TABLE.

[BktBallRef]

First, welcome to the board, Todd.

Second, most here would appreciate it if you would not use CAPS. It makes it very difficult to read. Thanks!