Off Topic: Rules Question
 

I hate to bring up a real basketball / officiating question, so I apologize in advance for bringing an off-topic discussion to this forum:

Play: FED rules. A scores a basket with 4.8 seconds remaining. The score is now B:46, A:44. Team A is out of time-outs. Player B1 (stupidly) grabs the ball as it falls through the basket and throws the ball: (a) high in the air, (b) to the other end of the court, (c) out of bounds under A's basket and away from the court.

Ruling:??

(Is there any penalty / delay warning to B? When (if ever) does the ball become live (what if A "fouls" during this sequence)?)

The penalty to B is an immediate throw-in violation if B never stepped out of bounds.

Did you mean to say that A1 grabs the ball and throws it? In that case, it's strictly the official's judgment. If it was intentional, you charge A1 with a technical and put the consumed time back on the clock. If it was simple confusion, you put the time back on the clock and let B run the endline for their normal throw-in.

B) could be interpreted as a throw-in violation

C) I would start the 5-second count

A) I need to mull that one over a little bit

Throw-in violation by B1 if the sitch is written correctly above.

Can you elucidate, Robert?

If it's B1, and he never stepped OOB, immediate throwin violation (under the same case play that sticks them when they just start dribbling). Ball to A under the basket.

If it's A1, let the clock run.

For Snaqwells this means JR doesn't really get the question.

The situation is written correctly. The team that's ahead grabs the ball (rather than just let time expire). In each case, it's clear that the intent is to "waste time" (even though it's not needed) -- even in case B, there's no way to "interpret" the throw as a throw-in pass (no other B players are at or heading to the other end of the court).

Why is it that every time there's a discussion, it has to get personal?:confused:

Try to stay on topic, peanutgallery boy.

Don't you have to go scrape the barnacles off your canoe?

I'd start the 5-second count when B1 grabbed the ball, with the rationale that it's at his disposal at that time. Then just let the clock run out.

Team B isn't gaining any advantage through the dumb play of B1.

Jmo....

why start the 5 second count -- there is less than that amount of time on the clock and the clock is not stopped.

This is just gratuitously mean. My feelings might be hurt; I'll have to check.

Because:
(a) you're probably gonna need an explanation for your actions post-game for somebody...and it's easier to explain the situation if everybody has seen a visual count.
(b) if you're decide you're going to follow the course of action I suggested, proper mechanics have you showing the visual count.
(c) You look like you actually might have a clue as to what you're doing if you show an immediate visual count.

In A and C, I'm going to have a 5 second count going, and I'm going to let the clock run out. In B, technically this could be a throw-in violation, but unless it looks an awful lot like he was trying to initiate a play, I'm going to go with the 5 second count and let the clock run out.

And yes, I will be counting, because an awful lot of people will be looking at me as soon as B1 throws the ball to see what I'm going to "do about this." I want it to be entirely obvious what I'm going to do.

If you glanced at the clock and know that there is less than 5 seconds remaining, I see no need to start a count. I would explain this to anyone who questioned it postgame.

If a team scores with 7 seconds remaining in any period, do you begin a 10 second count once the ball has been inbounded?

Say the defense reaches thru the endline & dislodges the ball or fouls the thrower & the clock doesn't stop on your whistle... how would you know how much time to put back on the clock w/out a count?

7 seconds remaining, I'll make a visible 10 second count... in case of a TO & the clock keeps running then I have definite info with my count.

I'm JUST A COACH, so by definition I dont know the rules and should just shut up and eat my dead pets, but I believe there is a provision in the rulebook about just this scenario. under 5 seconds left, made basket by team A, team A losing with no Timeouts left. Intentionally trying to cause a delay of game whistle can be ignored by the officials and if it is egregious, the officials may call a technical foul. I don't have my rulebook with me at work (I'm lying, I'm JUST A COACH and I've never actually seen a rulebook) so I can't give a reference.

The only provision is that the refs call it both ways...

How are both teams going to be up with less than five seconds left in the game "stalling" for time to run out? I can't call it both ways :confused:

-Josh

The same way I do when there is no count...perhaps the throwin was made into the frontcourt...I look at the clock on the whistle.

Camron

Do you have a new whistle that I dont have?.. I want one with a clock on it!

If someone fouls or requests time-out and there is a clock error, it would be helpful to have the most information possible.

I've got a count here as well, mainly to show everyone I'm not sleeping and that I know what's happening. Similar to the reasoning for the signal we're allowed to give when the ball handler is no longer closely guarded.

I'm still want to call the immediate throwin violation, but I see JR's point about no advantage being gained by the stupidity.

Very good point... I tell the rooks this one.

YU.P.
In all cases, I can see showing the 5 second count as soon as it leaves B1's hands to show that the official is on the play and that the game ain't over.
I'd have no violation in any of the three cases if the time ran out with no player controlling the ball.

I've thought about this play for a bit and come to the following conclusion. The ball becomes live when B1 grabs it and decides to delay heading directly out of bounds for the throw-in. The officials should start the five second count at that time.

As soon as B1 throws the ball somewhere the official needs to make a decision. Part (c) seems to be the easiest to handle as the ball is now in a location from where the throw-in could be legally completed. In this case, the official merely continues the count and the game clock will expire.

Parts (a) and (b) present a different problem. Namely, it is not possible to allow the game to continue if the ball comes down in bounds and is controlled by a player of Team A as the action of B1 cannot be considered a legal throw-in as he was not OOB when throwing the ball. Therefore, I believe that a throw-in violation must be called against Team B as soon as B1 throws the ball into the air anywhere over the playing court. Sound the whistle, stop the clock, and resume play with a throw-in to Team A on the endline with whatever amount of time remains. To do otherwise seems unfair to Team A imo.

B1 tossing the ball to the regular in-thrower is unlikely to be penalized. ;)

Here you go:

JT

That's cute, mick. :)

Where's My Credit Card ???
 

I want to order two of these. That way I can keep track of fouls so that both teams have the same number of team fouls, which coaches are often requesting. If I get two more, and officiate barefooted, I can keep track of timeouts so that I don't grant an extra timeout to a team. Coaches hate it when we do that and have to give the other team some technical foul shots.

http://www.ump-attire.com/Merchant2/...nindicator.jpg

It's Mister Peanut Gallery Boy, to you... !

I love it.

:cool:

Many(many) years ago, when it was hard to find football downs trackers like these for sale, one of the wives made up a bunch of 'em for us. She just bought some black 1/2" and 1/4" elastic.....little bit of cutting and stitching.....and <i>voila</i>..... the exact same thing for about a nickel each.

BillyMac, they come in black and white, so you could use different colours on each hand - no need for foot versions. :p

How many you got anyway??

(no wonder you're such a cranky old ffffer)

The Beehive State ...
 

I didn't know Jurassic Referee lived in Utah ???

Isn't Utah aka Hell?

It's a popular misconception. And it was done on a trial basis. But Satan didn't like it here. Apparently he prefers the place with all the flames. Go figure.

You mean Calgary - eh?

http://www.calgary-city-maps.com/ima...garyFlames.gif