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-   -   I know it's summer league, but... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/45340-i-know-its-summer-league-but.html)

Adam Wed Jun 11, 2008 03:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
I understood that part. I was asking why can't we have both. Why one have to take precedent over the other.
Because one is more important than the other. Are they both important? Yes.
But one is obviously more important.

truerookie Wed Jun 11, 2008 03:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Because one is more important than the other. Are they both important? Yes.
But one is obviously more important.
I got that.

I'm attempting to play devil's advocate here. (I may not be doing a good job). If I hear my assignor state that play calling is more important than mechanics to hell with the mechanics as long as I call the play right I will work.

Mark Padgett Wed Jun 11, 2008 03:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
There's one heckuva big difference between not switching in summer ball and actual lack of hustle.
I agree. Usually in summer ball, my buddies and I use what we refer to as "convenience mechanics", which pretty much means switch when it makes sense.

Jurassic Referee Wed Jun 11, 2008 03:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
This is where I disagree with you. How you present yourself on foul calls is just as important as anything you do when it comes to presentation (uniform, signals, presence). People are looking for your confidence to determine the competence as an official. You are always going to have people that disagree with a call or two even when you are right. The presentation is the way you communicate the call to the world and that is very important. Also it is important because if you cannot present the proper information, then you might have to clean up a mess you are not able to easily handle.
And that where I could disagree completely with you too.

When I evaluate, I could give a damn less how an official reports, as long as that report is fairly accurate and legible. Whether that official is reporting a <b>correct</b> call is a helluva lot more important than looking pretty while doing so.

You can have the greatest presentation and communication skills and also show the greatest confidence of any official in the history of basketball while reporting, but if you're reporting what was obviously a crappy call, the world is gonna care less about what you look like while you're reporting.

Reporting a call is nowhere near as important as getting the call right first imo.

Ch1town Wed Jun 11, 2008 03:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Because one is more important than the other. Are they both important? Yes.
But one is obviously more important.
Exactly! I worked with an official several times last season & they were really crisp & clean while reporting fouls to the table (I must admit I took a bit of their reporting style and incorporated into my game) but the call selections got them ripped after a few of the games.

ie: Several "over the back" calls where the defense obtained the rebound & the contact didn't put the rebounder at a disadvantage, but the call was continuously made... sometimes killing the fast break opportunity. Plus, when working in a 3 person system the L should trust the T & slot to make those calls.

The official couldn't comprehend the fact that contact doesn't equal a foul, the result of the contact is what makes it a foul. I guess that's a good example of call selection outweighing table reporting.
Basically, who cares how well you look when reporting a bad call.

Adam Wed Jun 11, 2008 03:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
I got that.

I'm attempting to play devil's advocate here. (I may not be doing a good job). If I hear my assignor state that play calling is more important than mechanics to hell with the mechanics as long as I call the play right I will work.
If you did, one could question your listening skills. :)

Raymond Wed Jun 11, 2008 03:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie

I understood that part. I was asking why can't we have both. Why one have to take precedent over the other.
Good luck with that. Twice this AAU season I've heard this one fellow official complain because other officials were using proper mechanics and because they were switching--thus causing the games to take longer. He said we need to just report the foul from where we are standing and get the ball back in play.

jsblanton Wed Jun 11, 2008 04:16pm
oops
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
I bet you would get some points with him if you show him you capitalized "He" when referring to him in you post. Exactly which deity is he? :rolleyes:
Slight slip of the sHift key.:o

Adam Wed Jun 11, 2008 04:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town
Basically, who cares how well you look when reporting a bad call.
This just needed to be repeated. Well stated.

JRutledge Wed Jun 11, 2008 07:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
And that where I could disagree completely with you too.

When I evaluate, I could give a damn less how an official reports, as long as that report is fairly accurate and legible. Whether that official is reporting a <b>correct</b> call is a helluva lot more important than looking pretty while doing so.

You can have the greatest presentation and communication skills and also show the greatest confidence of any official in the history of basketball while reporting, but if you're reporting what was obviously a crappy call, the world is gonna care less about what you look like while you're reporting.

Reporting a call is nowhere near as important as getting the call right first imo.
I think both things are a package. And when I evaluate officials for my association or at camps, if you cannot give a good presentation you will get docked just as much as if you made a bad call. And during the summer most of the time you cannot work both things equally because of the nature of summer ball. Where I am from your mechanics might get you over the top. We can always disagree with a call or two when we are not in the position of the official. But one thing that helps officials where I am at is your mechanics. And your table presentation is a big part of that. You might call a great game but if no one knows what you are doing, then it does not matter. Then people start to question the other parts of your games.

In my experience if you do not have good mechanics, chances are you do not have the other things to be a good official.

Peace

truerookie Wed Jun 11, 2008 09:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
Good luck with that. Twice this AAU season I've heard this one fellow official complain because other officials were using proper mechanics and because they were switching--thus causing the games to take longer. He said we need to just report the foul from where we are standing and get the ball back in play.
Thanks! (with the luck part);) . Look, it makes a hill of beans to me what someone may or may not want to do. I can only speak for myself. When I step on the court I will give all parties involved my best. What is wrong with officials giving the kids; site admin; assignor (except JR;) ) their best without regards if its summer or regular season(play calling/mechanics)?

This is one of many reasons why newbies are having a hard time grasping the concept because of this mindset. Summer ball is not as important. Which I say BS!! Most new officials start out in the summer.


I bet the official who was complaining was probably a local official and was not assigned by supervisor of officials for AAU.

JRutledge Wed Jun 11, 2008 09:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
Thanks! (with the luck part);) . Look, it makes a hill of beans to me what someone may or may not want to do. I can only speak for myself. When I step on the court I will give all parties involved my best. What is wrong with officials giving the kids; site admin; assignor (except JR;) ) their best without regards if its summer or regular season(play calling/mechanics)?
You are confusing "giving your best" to what is reality. Giving your best has little to do with what mechanics we choose to use or not use. If anything the kids and coaches want to play, rather than us sitting around to make movements. And when rules take out many parts of normal game activity, I am sure the players and coaches care even less what we do as long as we keep the game moving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
This is one of many reasons why newbies are having a hard time grasping the concept because of this mindset. Summer ball is not as important. Which I say BS!! Most new officials start out in the summer.
This last statement is not true (at least in my experience). There are a lot of officials where I live that start working when the real season starts. Summer games are often given to people who are already on the lists of associations and that means they were members and licensed officials. Now that can vary from one place to another, but I cannot think of any time I worked a HS league, AAU Tournament or any off season league with a brand, spanking new official. Most of the time those officiating summer leagues in my area are veteran officials with vast experience. I know when I started I worked regular season HS and JH games first. Summer Leagues was not something I had access to because I was not yet a licensed official.

Peace

truerookie Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
You are confusing "giving your best" to what is reality. Giving your best has little to do with what mechanics we choose to use or not use. If anything the kids and coaches want to play, rather than us sitting around to make movements. And when rules take out many parts of normal game activity, I am sure the players and coaches care even less what we do as long as we keep the game moving.



This last statement is not true (at least in my experience). There are a lot of officials where I live that start working when the real season starts. Summer games are often given to people who are already on the lists of associations and that means they were members and licensed officials. Now that can vary from one place to another, but I cannot think of any time I worked a HS league, AAU Tournament or any off season league with a brand, spanking new official. Most of the time those officiating summer leagues in my area are veteran officials with vast experience. I know when I started I worked regular season HS and JH games first. Summer Leagues was not something I had access to because I was not yet a licensed official.

Peace

You have your perspective, I have mines.

JRutledge Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
You have your perspective, I have mines.
Perspective and reality are two different things.

Peace

Mark Padgett Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
You have your perspective, I have mines.
What kind of mines are they? Gold, silver?


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